Favourable Treatment/Inconsistency in T2 CW Leaving

Chess has requested a review of Moderation Actions on how the decisions were made in two CWs - the recent T2 CW involving EC and an Illy CW in Aug 2018 in which Illy left T2. The request was posted in Mod Forums yesterday, with no objections.

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I can speak to the Illy CW since i was the one receiving the report. As most of you know, i don't CW, so i polled the mods who CW and was informed that that T2 leaving was a dirty tactic. I responded to Chess:



He informed me that illy gave him the win, and so it was case closed, and i deleted the topic. Problem solved.

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The EC situation was far more complex, as it included a month long discussion that included allegations of ghosting, dodging, and a CW that resulted in considerable drama in the forums. The mod discussion was over a much longer period. The suggestion to reset EC elo was made, and no mods or admin objected. As this had never been done before, Clovis required permissions from Dave to be able to do this, and Dave was unavailable for a couple of weeks. When he returned, i posted in the decision in the Coalition forums.

To clarify it wasn't the t2 leaving that got EC a penalty as the conclusion on Illyria leaving t2 was that it's a dirty tactic but mods can't do anything. Dodging isn't forbidden by the rules so it can be concluded that they received this elo reset because of allegations of ghosting?

The T2 Illy situation was long forgotten, and was never 'cited' as precedence in the EC discussion. You are correct that it should have been. This is in part my fault. You and Laochra sorted it out, Illy gave you the win, and from my perspective it was: 'problem solved'.

Often when there are quick solves in mod forums, i delete my posts, as the mod forum is often cluttered with many ongoing issues.

As it was over a year ago, and because it was solved with no drama, and Illy restored the win, i simply forgot about it.

The original post regarding EC was for the ghosting situation. Then other issues began piling on, and again, since i don't CW, i wasn't overly involved in the discussion. When the proposal of an elo reset came up, i had no objections to it, and tend to rely on what the CW'ing mods think. However, in this case Clovis weighed in, and he asked directly if i approved of an elo reset, and i said yes. When i said yes, i can assure you the Illy situation was nowhere in my mind, otherwise i would have mentioned it. Regardless, i can take the blame for that. Clovis appeared to be disappointed in the conduct of a couple of his players, and in my mind i was thinking 'if Clovis is ok with this, it must be serious.'

So in short, you are correct - a different bar was used in these two cases, though it was not deliberate or intentional.

Brian, nice from you trying to transparently show and express everything out about 2 mentioned clan wars after a Chess' request. Fair enough from you; respect.

But, it's not your inconsistency. Stop just 'surrendering' to someone's else request that easily. A different bar was used in these two cases - reasonably.
Let me explain the thing in your defence, Brian, which could pretty well sort the difference between these 2 cws. (Please, read the text before going on SS)

Right after our cw with EC happened, where certain EC members left the cw turn 2 with the intention not to lose Elo, as their main leader, Clovis came online and tried to immideatly solve the things out with a wish of giving back the Elo that belonged to PB; the same way Chess and Illyria sorted out their one back in 2018.

He made a new cw, called members of my clan to join and expressed a will to give us the Elo that belongs to us.
As it is visible from the screenshot proof, we agreed on that, joined it to sort the things out so we can all move on.
- Mecoy (at that time called Commando Eagle) said there is no problem about anything, we were willing to wait till the Clovis sort the things out with his clan members.
- Myself said that I don't want to go into any kind of big discussions at chats at first point while it seemed that Elo giving back will be respected, wishing only to solve the things by gaining 'stolen/missing' Elo back. Same way Chess and Illyria did it.

And it would all stop there. As it stopped with that Illyria's cw.
But EC members who left the CW turn 2 didn't agree with Clovis to give us the Elo and forced him to give up on that idea. Right after that I was arrogantly pmed by one of those who were into that cw that I can only shut up and cry -- about stolen Elo that will never be given back to PB.

That was the moment where not only the 'stolen' Elo, but also an every single trace of respect and competence was thrown away. I decided to go for all or nothing, I've put myself into all those several-day long discussions, forcing everyone to be included into the case, from community to the staff. I knew something needs to change. I knew it must be stopped and punished. It was really a disgrace for anyone who is into the competitive scene, not only for PB. It could happen easily again to anyone if it wasn't punished.

Personally, I pmed Clovis (he can confirm) that I respected his pretty fine objectivity and his good will to solve the things on easier way, without any other consequences.
Sadly, his coalition became a victim of his clanmates' behaviour.

And such a behaviour was reasonably punished harder with an Elo reset, than just giving the Elo back. Add to that punishment all 'negative' happenings connected to EC during the current season which were also discussed in various threads.







As a conclusion. We are all same here. We are all part of something that connects us every day. We all have better and worse days. We are all sometimes happy or angry. Mistakes may happen to anyone, especially when head goes hot after a wrong move in a duel or cw. Same mistakes and half-cocked decisions (as leaving turn 2) may be solved easily in respectful way even if they happen.
But consistent stubborn disrespect, arrogance, uncompetence, humiliation and toxicity towards others by words and doings, even after your own wrong, unthinking decisions - is something that must be punished.

Now and anytime in future if it happens again.

I'm so glad njab deleted.

No more njab = better competitive scene

Kirjoittanut Chess, 12.11.2019 at 15:04

To clarify it wasn't the t2 leaving that got EC a penalty as the conclusion on Illyria leaving t2 was that it's a dirty tactic but mods can't do anything. Dodging isn't forbidden by the rules so it can be concluded that they received this elo reset because of allegations of ghosting?

If only you'd demonstrated such a keen interest in consistency and justice during your own tenure as mod, rather than spending your time advocating for tiktok and waffel to be banned.

What happened to you chess. I defended you for years, now because you lost a few 2v1s we get these petty little personal vendetta's.

For the record, this was a 1v1 cw which 4nic trolled and left. I gave back the elo chess was due the next day.

Kirjoittanut Permamuted, 13.11.2019 at 08:51

For the record, this was a 1v1 cw which 4nic trolled and left. I gave back the elo chess was due the next day.

Ok, I don't remember this CW at all, and Chess hasn't exactly been forthcoming on details. No screenshot, no write-up on what happened beyond 'Illy left t2'. This explains why.

If there's really an inconsistency by all means it should be addressed. My gut is telling me this 400 days later review of mod action has more to do with recent discussions about 1v2 than with a genuine concern about consistency in application of the rules. But that's fine, truth fears no investigation.

Kirjoittanut Croat, 12.11.2019 at 21:54

Brian, nice from you trying to transparently show and express everything out about 2 mentioned clan wars after a Chess' request. Fair enough from you; respect.

But, it's not your inconsistency. Stop just 'surrendering' to someone's else request that easily. A different bar was used in these two cases - reasonably.
Let me explain the thing in your defence, Brian, which could pretty well sort the difference between these 2 cws. (Please, read the text before going on SS)

The illyria cw wasn't solved without drama. I had provided evidence to brianwl



It just wasn't mentioned here.

To clarify, Illyria did NOT give back the ELO immediately. Firstly, because they refused to do so I made a report of which the result you can see above. The result of the report wasn't brianwl alone decision it was a mod decision.
In the mentioned topic
https://atwar-game.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=36748
You can see there was enough shaming saying Illyria was using dirty tactics plus there was more drama going on ingame.
Only after this Laochra stepped in saying that they will gave the elo back.

Additionally, there was a further allegation of Illyria t2 leaving mentioned by Jugers2 which was not being addressed.

Kirjoittanut JUGERS2, 30.08.2018 at 05:13

When chill rangefaield rome rush they left turn 2 too vs CT.

Zzzzzzzz in duel when u leave t2 u lost the duel why its not the same in cw ? this game is retarded lol

Kirjoittanut Chess, 13.11.2019 at 11:12

The illyria cw wasn't solved without drama. I had provided evidence to brianwl

Drama levels are relative i guess... the point is the issue was resolved without mods needing to intervene directly.

The Competitive Community handled it's own problem 'in-house' which is the way it should be, and the way it has been for years until just recently.

Yes, there may have been some drama when you spoke to 4Nic or whoever you played (generally people aren't at their best in the minutes following a CW loss) but by the time you messaged me, cooler heads prevailed and the correct decision was made without threats, without mod intervention, without all the active mods being messaged every day or two by multiple players demanding justice... i could go on. Infinitesimally less drama. Lao didn't need to restore the win... i had already indicated that it wasn't something mods were going to do anything about ... and still the correct result occurred. It may be true that Lao was motivated by the reasons you say - Lao can speak to that. But the situation was solved... 'with no drama'

with considerably less drama. ♥

Kirjoittanut Froyer, 13.11.2019 at 11:28

Zzzzzzzz in duel when u leave t2 u lost the duel why its not the same in cw ? this game is retarded lol

Answered in my message to CHess (read the first post =D)

Kirjoittanut Permamuted, 13.11.2019 at 08:51

If only you'd demonstrated such a keen interest in consistency and justice during your own tenure as mod, rather than spending your time advocating for tiktok and waffel to be banned.
What happened to you chess. I defended you for years, now because you lost a few 2v1s we get these petty little personal vendetta's.

For the record, this was a 1v1 cw which 4nic trolled and left. I gave back the elo chess was due the next day.

Kirjoittanut Acquiesce, 13.11.2019 at 09:05

Ok, I don't remember this CW at all, and Chess hasn't exactly been forthcoming on details. No screenshot, no write-up on what happened beyond 'Illy left t2'. This explains why.

If there's really an inconsistency by all means it should be addressed. My gut is telling me this 400 days later review of mod action has more to do with recent discussions about 1v2 than with a genuine concern about consistency in application of the rules. But that's fine, truth fears no investigation.

Most of your arguments surround around attacking me as a person and trying to make me feel guilty.

Lainaa:

rather than spending your time advocating for tiktok and waffel to be banned.

Unrelated to discussion.

During my time as a mod I was not focused on tik-tok being banned. Recently I asked in mod chat why Tik-Tok wasn't banned for being a holocaust denier, which Acqiuesce responded with that Denial of Holocaust is not a crime. That's not true in most european countries including where I live. He then outlined that the owner of the game is an US american. In the US holocaust denial is not a crime.

So I don't see how you could have possible known about my recent stance of Tik-Tok unless Acquiesce leaked this conversation to you?

Kirjoittanut Chess, 13.11.2019 at 13:29

Most of your arguments surround around attacking me as a person and trying to make me feel guilty.

Well I didn't attack you as a person at all. I just don't believe this "inquiry" is motivated by anything other than animus for Illyria, based on your saying "fuck Illyria" without provocation the other day in chat. But hey you're free to say what you like.

Kirjoittanut Chess, 13.11.2019 at 13:29

So I don't see how you could have possible known about my recent stance of Tik-Tok unless Acquiesce leaked this conversation to you?

We did have this conversation. And had I shared its details with Lao or anyone else that would have been totally fine. You didn't ask for my discretion, and it wasn't in the mod forum or anything. But just for the record, I didn't talk to Lao or anyone else about this.

Kirjoittanut Chess, 13.11.2019 at 13:29

Unrelated to discussion.

During my time as a mod I was not focused on tik-tok being banned. Recently I asked in mod chat why Tik-Tok wasn't banned for being a holocaust denier, which Acqiuesce responded with that Denial of Holocaust is not a crime. That's not true in most european countries including where I live. He then outlined that the owner of the game is an US american. In the US holocaust denial is not a crime.

So I don't see how you could have possible known about my recent stance of Tik-Tok unless Acquiesce leaked this conversation to you?

Good thing you deleted all your posts since 2018 eh. Allows you to make more accusations without any evidence.

Also you shouldn't talk about personal attacks after your behavior in that 2v1 gamechat the other day. Brians right. People really can be at their ugliest after a loss.

Kirjoittanut Acquiesce, 13.11.2019 at 13:54

Well I didn't attack you as a person at all. I just don't believe this "inquiry" is motivated by anything other than animus for Illyria, based on your saying "fuck Illyria" without provocation the other day in chat. But hey you're free to say what you like.

You forgot to mention that I have been calling Illyria a circle jerk for a year.

Kirjoittanut Chess, 13.11.2019 at 14:00

You forgot to mention that I have been calling Illyria a circle jerk for a year.

Why don't you say it once more in this thread so we can all stop pretending you have a legitimate grievance?

K, this discussion has gotten derailed... if i've responded to the original issue Chess, i think it's fine to lock it now. Pm me if there's something that hasn't been addressed, and i'll reopen it.