SP<->Protocoins Exchange Market with Twist

We should allow people to invest SP to Protocoins and exchange back to SP depending on stock value.

-The catch is that people are not allowed to spend those protocoins/SP invested without paying a commision
The exchange rate would be indication when to change the Real protocoin prices for the addons and premium packs.

EDIT:


I think this would help low ranks rank up and those who have available sp but no desirable upgrades for them to spend on.

Yes i agree with that , i only play 3v3 games and i don't earn much sp from them and i need lot of upgrades to have and i get 1500 pc from translation and there's no real use for them so if i can change them to SP , would be better for me
great idea , i hope that happen

I do not support makeing sp buy able

Interesting idea... needs more thoughts on it.

Just a brief comment on it:
There exists already a way to transform PC into SP: use the SP boost. This boost is nothing else than "to invest PC for multiplying SP"; thus gaining more SP.

In game option:

• 50PC = 1,3 x SP
  
• 80PC = 1,5 x SP
  
• 120 PC = 2 x SP

Furthermore, in the ProtoShop, you can have a 1,5 SP boost for:

• 190PC = 1 day
  
• 590PC = 7 days
  
• 990PC = 30 days

These er implemented ways of transforming PC into REAL SP.

For the other way round SP into PC, there is still not such mechanism. Could be interesting, but always considering that SP is subject to control (because of farming).


Cheers,
CD

I disagree with the conversion of PC into SP, but I think it would be awesome if you could spend SP on PC. 10 SP = 1 PC? Not sure how it would work, but still would be nice especially for high ranks who have all the upgrades.

After talking with ezzatam and understanding exactly what he means, I support.

Kirjoittanut Spart, 26.05.2013 at 16:46

After talking with ezzatam and understanding exactly what he means, I support.

I updated a mock up photo... any comments about this?

Kirjoittanut ezzatam, 26.05.2013 at 18:22

Kirjoittanut Spart, 26.05.2013 at 16:46

After talking with ezzatam and understanding exactly what he means, I support.

I updated a mock up photo... any comments about this?

I like it. Especially the addition of graphs are nice. :3

Kirjoittanut Spart, 26.05.2013 at 16:04

I disagree with the conversion of PC into SP, but I think it would be awesome if you could spend SP on PC. 10 SP = 1 PC? Not sure how it would work, but still would be nice especially for high ranks who have all the upgrades.

yea you want it only to be fine for high ranks , but what about low ranks ? who need SP more then CP ??
and if you say 10 sp with 1 pc then with 1 k sp you can make 100 pc and if you have 20k sp you can make 2000 pc !!!!!
and you can boost sp after with pc so that's the real farming !
but if someone pay money to farm sp then at least he pay money ! it's like premium or having general and etc so what !

Plop, I agree with this idea because it's very funny for the game... :p and usefull.
But, two main problems :
1. How to ensure against speculation ?
2. How to ensure gains for admins ?
The first problem can be resolved by a semi-float exchange system. And the second too.

Semi-Float exchange system

I explain : this is a real market of change in Europe. In Europe, you can exchange your liquidity against Dollar. But, many many speculation in the real life in the change market. So two solution can be used to limited this.
1. Put a commission to enter in the market (not effective because constraint on investments).
2. Put a semi-float exchange system
For the second solution, you have two threshold (two red bar).

The top red bar indicates the maximum of exchange (for example : 100SP = 1 PC),

The bottom red bar indicates the minimum of Exchange (for example : 50 SP = 1PC).

Why ? Because speculation is discourage, indeed, if you do a commission, you can always speculation. But if you reduce the perspective of speculation with two threshold you have a real market exchange without speculation (or limited). Admins continue to have the power on PC and SP (because you need min 50SP for 1 PC) so they continue to earn money with people who wants to win quickly PC or SP. And they can win many many money if PC are exchange against SP. Because if SP are purchasable indirectly by the market, they can become very rich :p.

What's happen when the market affected a red bar ? The market don't function normally. So the game (atwar) exchange all SP point to PC independently of the market. For example, if all people buy SP against PC, the value of SP decreases. So, you reach the bottom red bar (50SP = 1PC), at this moment, it's not the market which equalizes offer and demand but atwar. Because all new transactions are realised by atwar to ensure the parity : 50SP = 1PC at the minimum. (So poor speculation possible).

I think it's necessary to prevent this problem.

I think this is a good idea. Like trading, you could give an amount of your SP to get PC and prices could vary. This could encourage people to invest money into buying ProtoCoins and then they can trade to get SP. Support

Support

Disagree.

Let me tell you why:

SP:PC - 10:1

1.Say now i play a default world map. I am about to win and the pools at 4000 SP. That makes 4000 SP worth 400 PC. A major lose for people buying protocoins and remember they are already handing out tons of stuff for FREE!

2.I will 4000 SP in a game then convert it all to PC which mean 400 PC -> I join a game play to 4000 SP and use x2 SP boost -> Convert my SP to PC again -> Infinite SP Boost? -> Profit!!

3.Drac won 17000 SP in one game. 17000 SP:1700 PC. AtWar loses money.

So yes I don't support this.

Kirjoittanut Meester, 27.05.2013 at 06:51

SP:PC - 10:1

Why would admin start at that rate?????
We have been talking about 50<SP<100 for 1 PC.
About your concerns of mass people with protocoins, that's why there should be a hefty commission to eject out any investment.
Small Commission and warning when investing, larger commission when ejecting.
That freezes up the investments as unspendable for many, and the market would see arbitrage and equilibrium.

It's not hard to test it out. All we need is unspendable sp and pc for sample group.

PS: In wake of rank 12s and 13s with hundreds of thousands of SP, there should be maximum investments.

I still don't encourage this to be implemented. Basically there will be time where the SP to PC rate is low making buying SP "useless" and times where it is high making buying SP "cheap". Would really cause a major change in the prices. People could also take advantage by saving the SP for when the rate goes up.

Kirjoittanut Meester, 27.05.2013 at 06:51

Disagree.

Let me tell you why:

SP:PC - 10:1

1.Say now i play a default world map. I am about to win and the pools at 4000 SP. That makes 4000 SP worth 400 PC. A major lose for people buying protocoins and remember they are already handing out tons of stuff for FREE!

2.I will 4000 SP in a game then convert it all to PC which mean 400 PC -> I join a game play to 4000 SP and use x2 SP boost -> Convert my SP to PC again -> Infinite SP Boost? -> Profit!!

3.Drac won 17000 SP in one game. 17000 SP:1700 PC. AtWar loses money.

So yes I don't support this.

I agree with Ezzatam. I think it's particurlarly rare to have 4000 SP / game. And, the commission limit your opinion.

AND. The principe of market is against your theory. Because if all people do that, see the result :
I retake your example : SP:PC = 10:1, you earn 4000 same 10 people like you. Together, you decide to exchange SP to PC for buy SP boost x2 :
You increases the value of SP (see my graphic). So after the exchange, you can trade 4000 SP to 40 PC. It's the theory. So your vicious circle doesn't exist... Because yes, you can have x2 SP, but, you decrease the value of X10...
you forget the market theory. You think like a fixe parity system but the system of Ezzatam is a float change system. So, you can't use your example Meester.

Image of the market :

Whats the point of playing then?
If i can pay my way to rank 13.

How is this gonna work? I pay 80$ for 80,000 protocoins and then buy 40 million sp?
WhT is next? Paying for elo and for wins in your profile?

Kirjoittanut Guest, 27.05.2013 at 07:36

Whats the point of playing then?
If i can pay my way to rank 13.
How is this gonna work? I pay 80$ for 80,000 protocoins and then buy 40 million sp?

If you paid $80 just to get rank 13 and not play, the admins would point and laugh at you, then enjoy a jumbo meal at an upscale restaurant.
Besides, maximum investments would cap off... (and commission would charge your ass off)

I must reminded you, there are some insane features to spend your cash on already.

PS: Thanks for talking as guest. I really wish you aren't TopHats.

Kirjoittanut Goblin, 27.05.2013 at 07:50

AtWall-Street.com

btw. ezza love how you start your post with "we should allow.." ...i thought there are only 3 admins.

This exchange has significance to a few of our problems.
1-SP Gap for Rank 4-5, they can bridge it through market.
2-High ranks with mountains of SP with nothing to play for (completed upgrades), they can get PC addons to play with.
3-People with protocoins who prefer in game features to these PC addons.

If any losses are made, the only ways to cover ground are to earn SP by playing or buy PC by paying.

PS: That rhymes.

Furthermore Guest95687,

Imagine you spend 100€ to PC, you earn 12300 PC. You can exchange it to SP, so you come to exchange market but first, you must pay a commission (20%) so your PC decrease to 9800 PC.
Now, we suppose that we can't estimate the stock price. But for this example we start with : 100:1 (SP:PC) exchange. The system of market recalculate all price when 10 PC are spend.
So, imagine the mecanic : if you can trade 100 SP to 1PC, the market exchange a lot of SP to PC. So if somebody do the inverse, the price stock down quickly.
You have 9800 PC. You spend your first 10 PC to 1000 SP. But with this transaction, the stock price down to 95:1 or 90:1, you spend your second 10PC to 950 or 900 SP, with this transaction, the price down to 85-80:1 ...
After may be 10-15 turns, the stock price is may be 10-5:1 and you can exchange the rest of your 9700 PC to just around 48500 - 97 000 PC (globally you win around 110000 SP max). And this theory start with a stock price of 100:1 (don't real).
So if you want spend 100 € for just 110000 SP you can, but me, i prefer a restaurant .

Kirjoittanut J.Schumpeter, 27.05.2013 at 08:10

Furthermore Guest95687,

Imagine you spend 100€ to PC, you earn 12300 PC. You can exchange it to SP, so you come to exchange market but first, you must pay a commission (20%) so your PC decrease to 9800 PC.
Now, we suppose that we can't estimate the stock price. But for this example we start with : 100:1 (SP:PC) exchange. The system of market recalculate all price when 10 PC are spend.
So, imagine the mecanic : if you can trade 100 SP to 1PC, the market exchange a lot of SP to PC. So if somebody do the inverse, the price stock down quickly.
You have 9800 PC. You spend your first 10 PC to 1000 SP. But with this transaction, the stock price down to 95:1 or 90:1, you spend your second 10PC to 950 or 900 SP, with this transaction, the price down to 85-80:1 ...
After may be 10-15 turns, the stock price is may be 10-5:1 and you can exchange the rest of your 9700 PC to just around 48500 - 97 000 PC (globally you win around 110000 SP max). And this theory start with a stock price of 100:1 (don't real).
So if you want spend 100 € for just 110000 SP you can, but me, i prefer a restaurant .

instead of working a week to get 100 € and get 110k SP only , you can farm for one day and get 220k SP
btw if you want a restaurant then come to my restaurant , we'll open in 5 days max !

Lol, thanks E.A.B for your good example !

This is bullshit, i work hard to have a higher rank than everyone, without boost, without scenarios, and now a douche bag can pay his way to high rank without playing.

Stop making this game pay to win or me and other high ranks are just gonna stop playing, and then you can enjoy your lobby full of un games and farm scenarios

? If we can win SP point without buy, why spend 100€ for it ? and just for 110000 SP ? you have right. We can farm and become high rank without this system. So, you agree with us, this system isn't to farm, is a system for improve the game : do a risk with a market is a great idea, may be the best idea in this forum. Independently of your "bullshit".
Because Market Exchange is a attractive system. Who allow to admin to become more rich and allow to high rank to spend their SP point. This is put a economic system in a game already very well.
I understand your opinion, "bullshit" system which allow to rank 0 to become a rank 13. But it's not possible. So, you can contest again without arguments but please, when you answer again, please give me example, theory etc... because you prove nothing now. You just say "bullshit"...

"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence."
- Christopher Hitchens.


There is no proof that this "Balance" works.
Right now i only see the things like this:

Low ranks and ezzatam support because their noobs and think "magic" will balance the equation.
And high ranks only support the option to buy protocoins with sp. not the other way around.


Buying sp with protocoins its nonsense, admins already told us before thatthis will never be implemented.

Kirjoittanut J.Schumpeter, 27.05.2013 at 09:54

? If we can win SP point without buy, why spend 100€ for it ? and just for 110000 SP ? you have right. We can farm and become high rank without this system. So, you agree with us, this system isn't to farm, is a system for improve the game : do a risk with a market is a great idea, may be the best idea in this forum. Independently of your "bullshit".
Because Market Exchange is a attractive system. Who allow to admin to become more rich and allow to high rank to spend their SP point. This is put a economic system in a game already very well.
I understand your opinion, "bullshit" system which allow to rank 0 to become a rank 13. But it's not possible. So, you can contest again without arguments but please, when you answer again, please give me example, theory etc... because you prove nothing now. You just say "bullshit"...

Btw your fucking stupid, you don't even know your own formula.

50$ (dollards) = 50,000 protocoins. 50,000 =250,000 sp (if the currency is set at minimun)
250,000 sp = Rank 9

If the currency is high.... Lmao you will be rank 15.

No, this extrems are an example . Don't worry. In the reality the market of exchange fixe extrems with the behavior of participants. May be extrems will be 1 - 25 or 1-5 etc... Its depend of the equilibrium. In the reality i think we must add a variation limit between 20 - 30 % of the equilibrium determine by offer and demand.
But this extrems : 50 and 100 are just for the example of Semi-float system ! Ok, i understand why you are nervous now :p. But sorry, i express myself badly. 5 SP to 1 PC is an example !

To determine theses extrems we must create the system. Launch a beta test and see what's the result of equilibrium. After this, we must adapt the system with two borns and it will be secured. Without your vicious circle because i think that many people think like you. And if all think like you the demand of SP will be high and the demande of PC will be low. So, I think the real equilibrium will be 1:25 or + (SP:PC) !

But we can't provide the behavior of the market without test. The theory of the market is that any people can do individual benefit... because other want the same thing ^^. S

PS : you can keep your "fucking stupid", you have may be 12 years old but its a friendly forum and you can't argument with insults without attract the scorn of others. So relax .

Kirjoittanut Guest, 27.05.2013 at 10:46

There is no proof that this "Balance" works.
Buying sp with protocoins its nonsense, admins already told us before that this will never be implemented.

If you spend 80 USD or 100 EUR and get Rank 13+ or whatever, you won't get the respect you expect from other players.
Furthermore if we are presuming this market has no cap (max investment limit), your mass exchange would crash the market, making one side worthless and the other side billionaires. You would also be the asshole that everyone hunts down and kick from every game lol.

There is no proof your specific brain isn't damaged, go get your cut open and show me.
It's the same logic-If you encounter an issue you don't understand, ask. Don't harass people as to not get things implemented.

Admins aren't dumb enough to ignore benefits lol and players aren't dumb enough to think that a sudden Rank 12,13 is a prodigy. (See FSM invitiation incident?) I believe there is a certain sense of pride that admins didn't want to extinguish from you. Nothing is certain forever.

Admins once said there won't be custom maps. Here we are today.

Kirjoittanut ezzatam, 27.05.2013 at 11:35

Kirjoittanut Guest, 27.05.2013 at 10:46

There is no proof that this "Balance" works.
Buying sp with protocoins its nonsense, admins already told us before that this will never be implemented.

If you spend 80 USD or 100 EUR and get Rank 13+ or whatever, you won't get the respect you expect from other players.
Furthermore if we are presuming this market has no cap (max investment limit), your mass exchange would crash the market, making one side worthless and the other side billionaires. You would also be the asshole that everyone hunts down and kick from every game lol.

There is no proof your specific brain isn't damaged, go get your cut open and show me.
It's the same logic-If you encounter an issue you don't understand, ask. Don't harass people as to not get things implemented.

Admins aren't dumb enough to ignore benefits lol and players aren't dumb enough to think that a sudden Rank 12,13 is a prodigy. (See FSM invitiation incident?) I believe there is a certain sense of pride that admins didn't want to extinguish from you. Nothing is certain forever.

Admins once said there won't be custom maps. Here we are today.

"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens.

Admins say custom maps where low priority, buy they say they will never sell SP.
You want me to link you to the interview? Or just to think your obtuse point of view is a proof that you can't handle a conversation? You get all upset because you know i am right but your ego makes you think the opposite.

If we are gonna have a argument, plz explain yourself. I already give you Factsabout how unbalanced your system is.

But you are alone in this topic with your ego... we don't want impose a system... we think about a system. So yes, you are in right when you say that we can become rank 9 if the parity is 1:5 (SP:PC), but i prove to you that is an example (Christopher Hitchens is fighted :p).

But you have reason. If the system allow to noob player to become an high rank... i think it's not a good idea. But we can keep this system for SP to PC only. For example :
The game give SP point alone with the game. The system can calculate the SP offer by the game and regulate the Price of SP by this system. For example : I'm only to play today. I earn 4000 SP today. And i want to exchange 3000 SP to PC. How much i can exchange ?
We must see my last graphic. The offer is fixed by the game : more people earn SP point by the game, more the offer go to the right of the graphic. And more the price of SP point decreases (example : 25:1) same in the market. But, if i buy many PC with my SP, the demand of SP point growth a lot and the price of SP point increases (example : 50:1).

This is the same principe in the control of monetary and liquidity by BCE or NBER in USA.

This system can resolved the problem unveiled by Guest95...