CW Season thoughts.

Simple suggestion for the Winter Season: increase counted games to 40.


As many of know the Clan War scene in the past year has seen a great increase in the amount of games being played and the amount of active clans willing to play them, however there are still some issues to get right regarding the season system. The present issues that I find most irritating are 1) the limit on included games and 2) The importance of competence.

At present we have a system where the last 20 games played count towards the season standings, there are pros and cons to this. The pros being that if you have a horrendous start to the season then you have a chance to improve your score, also this system is better for encouraging clans to continue cwing. The old system was obviously stifling willingness to play, it is great that now we have 12 clans with 100+ cws.

On the flip side if you have a good start to the season then you are inclined to be reluctant to cw for fear of losing your standing. This season for SM is a good example of that as we had 900+ points but through our willingness to cw we have actually dropped points (competence issue), this doesn't seem logical as it basically, for active clans makes the first 2 months of the season meaningless. It is simply a reverse of the old system. (first 10 games counted and nothing thereafter for those who are newer)

My suggestion for the next season is nothing drastic, there have been plenty of good suggestions that we can look into for future improvement once the admins are done with Html5. I think that with 40 games there is enough scope to included the uber active clans (evol Illyria MK) the middle active (sm, Shadow aces etc) and the less active clans and give them a better scope of the three months rather than the last third of the season.

Thoughts please.

I like it

I think it's worth a try... see how it goes. Cause obviously the other thing is that the clans without 40 (or more) cws won't have much CP to count towards the season standings. But yea again, it won't hurt to try i guess

Kirjoittanut Milkyy, 07.11.2014 at 22:31

I think it's worth a try... see how it goes. Cause obviously the other thing is that the clans without 40 (or more) cws won't have much CP to count towards the season standings. But yea again, it won't hurt to try i guess

It is already the case really that the more you play the higher up you generally are. All of the top 10 clans in the standings at this moment have completed 20+ games with just under 1/3 of the season left to go. At the very least I see 10 clans completing the full 40 in 3 months.

I want to become more competitive, that's just me personally so I'm still on he hunt for learning and stuff, I just have to say 40 games in 3 months is great but not alot of clans would do that, therefore the top 10 will always be the same, maybe 30 or 35 is more reasonable, but that's just my opinion, I'd be ok with 40.

Kirjoittanut CrypticCDN, 08.11.2014 at 00:05

I want to become more competitive, that's just me personally so I'm still on he hunt for learning and stuff, I just have to say 40 games in 3 months is great but not alot of clans would do that, therefore the top 10 will always be the same, maybe 30 or 35 is more reasonable, but that's just my opinion, I'd be ok with 40.

30 or 35 would be a good start and compromise to see how it goes. The thing is all of the clans that have reached 20 games this season bar 1 they already populate the top spots and have played much more than 20 wars. The only suggestion I have seen that would combat massification of cws over results is Desu's percentage idea, and that is flawed in the sense that it will discourage more cws as each cw will come with too much risk. 40 cw's in 90 days is very achievable. Obviously I am aware that it is not really the sytem we are after, but it is something the admins should be able to do in a small non time consuming update (I assume)

The reason there is a limit, is because some clans like to do cw's everyday and others do them once in a while, but I could see 40 games working.

I support. btw this should be in ideas and suggestion?

Didnt desu made a post about it?

Why I ask 3 questions?

Kirjoittanut Skanderbeg, 08.11.2014 at 08:38

Best would be to cw as much as you want whole season(3 months) and whoever gets most points earned - win season.
If you want to play 10 cws, thats your choice, someone will play 100 cws, someone wont play at all, and at the end whoever earned most points win.
I dont understand why is there limit to cw and earn points. It just make clans to be reluctant and hesitate to fight coz they are afraid to lose earned points and drop on the table.

i agree with you

If there is no limit, then farming would be much easier. 30-40 games counted should be fine.

Kirjoittanut Skanderbeg, 08.11.2014 at 08:38

Best would be to cw as much as you want whole season(3 months) and whoever gets most points earned - win season.
If you want to play 10 cws, thats your choice, someone will play 100 cws, someone wont play at all, and at the end whoever earned most points win.
I dont understand why is there limit to cw and earn points. It just make clans to be reluctant and hesitate to fight coz they are afraid to lose earned points and drop on the table.

I don't disagree that ideally every game should count to an overall reflection of your strength for a season, a simple massifcation of points though will mean that playing more will yeild results. One clan could go 40/100 wl over say 28/12 from another clan and win the season. As I said in post it is not perfect but within the design of the current system 40 games will give a better reflection of things than the 20 at the moment.

Kirjoittanut b0nker2, 07.11.2014 at 22:15

yea i agree, 30 would be fine if you want to take baby steps, although 40 would be preferable, there are several clans that would comfortably hit that number within 3 months.

As previously suggested I would also like to see points gained for a win capped at +50 regardless of the clans competence, it would remove the whole competence dropping problem to earn points. a clan with 13:7 shouldnt be beating a clan with 18:2.

These are 2 changes that would be easy to implement coding wise and would suffice for the time being until a better system can be considered and implemented, there have been many interesting suggestions.

40 clan wars in 3months is a great idea tough for some clans, a clan war every 2nd day is doable but 30 i think is a better start so 2-3cw a week (Saturday, Sunday and 1 during the week is easy to do) gives a chance for the less active clans and say if maybe 5 or 10 clans manage to do all 30 games they could then increase it to 35 or 40 and go from there

I think we'll try 30 games for the next season, see how it goes.

Excellent thanks.

Kirjoittanut Permamuted, 09.11.2014 at 20:21

Kirjoittanut b0nker2, 07.11.2014 at 22:15

words

I don't neccasarily belive we should have a simple win loss system, I think we still have to eventually come to a system that is based on comparable strength (like competence was supposed to), something that is very hard to judge, I liked the suggestion of somehow relating ranks or total SP rather than Clan comp to cw points earned but even this will have its flaws.

Obviously the competence system although nice as a statistic really serves no purpose in defining the strength of a clan in the current format. You and I both know that although MK and Illyria have much higher competence than other clans that are very capable of beating you, you suffer more for a loss, sadly the current system gives inflated competence that seems to be punishing the uber active clans. In changing the old system to help successful clans fight for the top spots in a season we unknowingly have created a similar problem.

Kirjoittanut b0nker2, 10.11.2014 at 05:10

Kirjoittanut Permamuted, 09.11.2014 at 20:21

Kirjoittanut b0nker2, 07.11.2014 at 22:15

words

I don't neccasarily belive we should have a simple win loss system, I think we still have to eventually come to a system that is based on comparable strength (like competence was supposed to), something that is very hard to judge, I liked the suggestion of somehow relating ranks or total SP rather than CW comp to cw points earned but even this will have its flaws.

Obviously the competence system although nice as a statistic really serves no purpose in defining the strength of a clan in the current format. You and I both know that although MK and Illyria have much higher competence than other clans that are very capable of beating you, you suffer more for a loss, sadly the current system gives inflated competence that seems to be punishing the uber active clans. In changing the old system to help successful clans fight for the top spots in a season we unknowingly have created a similar problem.

I do agree with most of you and laochra say.
But I think there should be no minimum of 50+ CP or no maximum of 100+ CP at all. I think the CP's should be given based on the competence, and yes most of it is right now but not really with much logic behind it.

But for an example, an unknown clan with rank 5's cw'ing mk or illyria
- MK&illyria both above the 2.0 competence right?
- The rank 5 clan has 0 competence.

I think if MK or illyria wins the game they should get like 25 competence points maybe even less? or like somewhere between 10 or 25. (just an suggestion)
1. Because the clan has 0, so idk why the minimum should be 50+ in the first place?
2. This prevents people making alt clans (which has happened in the past) to farm it.
3. Prevents clans farming low clans and stop cwing when they reached #1.
4. This gives more variable scores, maybe even some clans could have 1 or 2 points as a difference.

If the rank 5 clan wins, it shouldn't get 100 SP but maybe even more? 200 SP seems fair though. Why? ( 200 sp seems alot with the 20/20 CP points, but if there is no maximum off CP to get and/or 40/40 games, 200 sp isnt that big of a deal)
1. Illyria or MK know they lose alot of SP if they lose vs a new no competence clan.
2. They take the risk of losing it.
3. This opens a new kind of farm for clans who lose every cw on purpose till they have low competence and then beat every high clan. (also happened before)
There should be a way to fix that kind of farm.
I myself dont know anything about the mechanics admins have to deal with, but I think there should be a way to prevent it. If there is no way to prevent it with mechanics, I think the competitive clans should make a pact and decide to not CW that clan at all.

Just an suggestion ? Could make CW's more fun to do =D

Kirjoittanut Ivan, 10.11.2014 at 04:48

I think we'll try 30 games for the next season, see how it goes.

Did you guys also consider allowing all the colours in Html5 instead of just the first 8/10?
Multiple threads and reports from mods have been made about this.
Alot people like to play colours they cant choose because of no enough players.

(sorry for off-topic, just wanted to know if u heard about that)

Kirjoittanut Waffel, 10.11.2014 at 06:10

Kirjoittanut Ivan, 10.11.2014 at 04:48

I think we'll try 30 games for the next season, see how it goes.

Did you guys also consider allowing all the colours in Html5 instead of just the first 8/10?
Multiple threads and reports from mods have been made about this.
Alot people like to play colours they cant choose because of no enough players.

(sorry for off-topic, just wanted to know if u heard about that)

Yes, all 20 colors will be visible.

Kirjoittanut Ivan, 11.11.2014 at 01:16

Kirjoittanut Waffel, 10.11.2014 at 06:10

Kirjoittanut Ivan, 10.11.2014 at 04:48

I think we'll try 30 games for the next season, see how it goes.

Did you guys also consider allowing all the colours in Html5 instead of just the first 8/10?
Multiple threads and reports from mods have been made about this.
Alot people like to play colours they cant choose because of no enough players.

(sorry for off-topic, just wanted to know if u heard about that)

Yes, all 20 colors will be visible.

Will you also ban RP and UN?

In all seriousness, thanks.

Kirjoittanut Ivan, 11.11.2014 at 01:16

Kirjoittanut Waffel, 10.11.2014 at 06:10

Kirjoittanut Ivan, 10.11.2014 at 04:48

I think we'll try 30 games for the next season, see how it goes.

Did you guys also consider allowing all the colours in Html5 instead of just the first 8/10?
Multiple threads and reports from mods have been made about this.
Alot people like to play colours they cant choose because of no enough players.

(sorry for off-topic, just wanted to know if u heard about that)

Yes, all 20 colors will be visible.

Omggg!!! thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kirjoittanut Ivan, 11.11.2014 at 01:16

Kirjoittanut Waffel, 10.11.2014 at 06:10

Kirjoittanut Ivan, 10.11.2014 at 04:48

I think we'll try 30 games for the next season, see how it goes.

Did you guys also consider allowing all the colours in Html5 instead of just the first 8/10?
Multiple threads and reports from mods have been made about this.
Alot people like to play colours they cant choose because of no enough players.

(sorry for off-topic, just wanted to know if u heard about that)

Yes, all 20 colors will be visible.

tnx now i can play with my black color

Support

Kirjoittanut Skanderbeg, 08.11.2014 at 08:38

Best would be to cw as much as you want whole season(3 months) and whoever gets most points earned - win season.
If you want to play 10 cws, thats your choice, someone will play 100 cws, someone wont play at all, and at the end whoever earned most points win.
I dont understand why is there limit to cw and earn points. It just make clans to be reluctant and hesitate to fight coz they are afraid to lose earned points and drop on the table.

THIS IS THE GREATEST POST EVER

Kirjoittanut Ivan, 11.11.2014 at 01:16

Kirjoittanut Waffel, 10.11.2014 at 06:10

Kirjoittanut Ivan, 10.11.2014 at 04:48

I think we'll try 30 games for the next season, see how it goes.

Did you guys also consider allowing all the colours in Html5 instead of just the first 8/10?
Multiple threads and reports from mods have been made about this.
Alot people like to play colours they cant choose because of no enough players.

(sorry for off-topic, just wanted to know if u heard about that)

Yes, all 20 colors will be visible.

when can we expect modifications such as this to be added to the game?

Deleted off topic posts.. Stay on topic.

Kirjoittanut Quantum027, 11.11.2014 at 11:47

Kirjoittanut Skanderbeg, 08.11.2014 at 08:38

Best would be to cw as much as you want whole season(3 months) and whoever gets most points earned - win season.
If you want to play 10 cws, thats your choice, someone will play 100 cws, someone wont play at all, and at the end whoever earned most points win.
I dont understand why is there limit to cw and earn points. It just make clans to be reluctant and hesitate to fight coz they are afraid to lose earned points and drop on the table.

THIS IS THE GREATEST POST EVER

Hardly when it misses the massive flaw in that system. As much as I want to see as many cws played as possible, simply playing and amassing points alone should not win a season, take a look at what I said to his post before about my reasoning for this.

Kirjoittanut Waffel, 10.11.2014 at 05:37

Kirjoittanut b0nker2, 10.11.2014 at 05:10

Kirjoittanut Permamuted, 09.11.2014 at 20:21

Kirjoittanut b0nker2, 07.11.2014 at 22:15

words

I think if MK or illyria wins the game they should get like 25 competence points maybe even less? or like somewhere between 10 or 25. (just an suggestion)
1. Because the clan has 0, so idk why the minimum should be 50+ in the first place?

The minimum is 50 because when a clan goes much higher in comp, basically with what you are suggesting they have a very slim chance to finish in the top places, once this happens they will A) stop playing or B) make a new clan.

2. This prevents people making alt clans (which has happened in the past) to farm it.

Imo quite the reverse for the reason I outlined in point 1.

3. Prevents clans farming low clans and stop cwing when they reached #1.

generally higher clans find it hard to cw lower clans anyway. but I take your point


and for christs sake someone teach me how to multi quote!

Perhaps reducing the reward for beating a high comp clan might help solve the issue of low comp clans massing so many points, perhaps reduce the max reward to +75 rather than +100. I guess you're right bonk that there does need to be some sort of reward for weaker clans beating top clans.

Kirjoittanut Waffel, 10.11.2014 at 05:37

But for an example, an unknown clan with rank 5's cw'ing mk or illyria
- MK&illyria both above the 2.0 competence right?
- The rank 5 clan has 0 competence.

I think if MK or illyria wins the game they should get like 25 competence points maybe even less? or like somewhere between 10 or 25. (just an suggestion)
1. Because the clan has 0, so idk why the minimum should be 50+ in the first place?
2. This prevents people making alt clans (which has happened in the past) to farm it.
3. Prevents clans farming low clans and stop cwing when they reached #1.
4. This gives more variable scores, maybe even some clans could have 1 or 2 points as a difference.

But this would
1. Discourage top clans from playing low comp clans.
2. It would worsen the problem we already have with high comp clans being punished for their high competence since it's difficult for them to win a season.

I would like to see something that incorporate ranks rather than clan competence into the calculation for points gained in a cw, I think we could kill two problems with one proverbial stone here.

Firstly the wild differences in points gained by similar strength clans for example SM beating Illyria doesn't warrent 100 points gained since really we are evenly matched, likewise you shouldn't only get 50 for beating us with this being the case.

Secondly with the system I am about to propose we could see the 'top' clans be willing more to use their lower ranks/ recruit lower ranks and put them into cws more often for the rewards, anyways here it is.

-Keep the base limit for a win at 50 CP
-For every difference in rank +10 or +5 to the base cp gained.
-All rank 10+ I would class as the same,

so a cw team of 7 8 10 beating a team of 10 10 10 would yeild the max 100(or 75) points if they win, since there is a rank difference or 5 overall. Conversely if the 10 10 10 team win they would get the standard 50 points. 9 9 10 vs 10 10 10 would yeild 70 (60) points. So basically the more risk you take with using less experienced (in theory) members the greater reward you can get.

I think this is better than relying on clan competence that does nothing but severly hamper succesfull clans.