ATN - Custom maps for 3v3's and CW's? - by BertanK

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10.03.2014

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My question: Which custom map(s) have you played on? Do you think it(they) was(were) balanced enough for more 3v3's and CW's?

Here are some answered that I got:

bonkers map and chess map the ones i played as 3v3, and no... none of them is balanced for cws niether players know enough about them. i´m not saying they were bad maps, but i think if we should push other maps into cws would be, africa..america..asia. ppl knows much more about those in general, and they fairly balanced, but thats just my opinion

i've played that chess map, sorry but i cant remember name of the map. :p maybe.. 3-4 times. it seems balanced enough, but its gonna be hard to convince ppl to play cw's on custom 3v3.

i've played destoria. i think it's balanced good ...only we, the players sucked at pickings. have to get used to the map ...you know, knowing where are the militia and where is infantry.

After getting answers from the players who played them, I went and asked similar questions to the makers of the most popular two maps; Destoria by b0nker2 and Dreamworld by Chess. Here is how it went:

[pr] ●BertanK: So, do you think your map 'Dreamworld' is balanced enough (compared to the standard) for clans to cw with?
[pr] Chess: I have tested it multiple times with friends and adjusted it according to their feedback and my own thoughts, so yes I am certain that the map is balanced enough.
[pr] ●BertanK: So, in your opinion it can be used for cw's. And do you want to encourage clans to play on your map? As in advertise so that your map is used regularly?
[pr] Chess: I would love to see them to play my map but I am not going to talk them into playing my map. My map is currently featured if they do like it I am sure that they are going to play it. The problem that I see is that people are used to playing Europe+ 10k and that they are going to stick to it. Learning a new map takes time
[pr] ●BertanK: Yes, that is most certainly true, but at least it can spice up competition Thank you for your time!

Moving onto the interview with b0nker2 (which was more of a small discussion):

[pr] ●BertanK:So, you made the competitive custom map destoria, but do you think it is balance enough (compared to the standard map) for clans to play cw's with?
[pr] b0nker2:In all honesty it is more about familarity, EU is not really a balanced map. A truly 'balanced' map will be equal (mirrored) in all areas. If you mean is it viable for CW's then yes I think Destoria and some other maps are, or rather, will be if 'competitive' players learn them in the way they have learnt EU. Destoria I think has some nice geography, and I tried to make all strats viable, would be nice to see more 3v3's duels etc on custom maps, but people understandably don't want to risk it on maps they are not familiar with.
[pr] ●BertanK: interesting answer.. Many other people talked about familiarity, but wouldn't it also be challenging (and so also competitive in a way) to play with a map that you're not familiar with?
[pr] b0nker2: Completely, unfortunately there is a group of players 'pro' players that will say on one hand they want different competitive maps, then when they are made they will not play them, for fear of losing I assume. Imo tho
[pr] ●BertanK: yea i see, could be true
[pr] b0nker2: a good player can play any map that has standard units, and do well. Usually though, when good players lose on unfamiliar maps, they blame the map lol
[pr] ●BertanK: lol
[pr] b0nker2: maybe they are only good EU players?
[pr] ●BertanK: and what do you think you can do to make people lose their fear and start playing custom maps? because it will add to the competitive side in the long term.
[pr] b0nker2:Theoretically or practically?
[pr] ●BertanK: practically, because we want the job to be done
[pr] b0nker2:In theory the best system would be for a set of maps to be chosen at random for CW. but that is never going to happen. Practically what can be done, is simply more people trying the maps on a daily basis ie getting familiar with them and comfortable enough to cw on them. Which sadly the competitive players for the most part are not interested in doing imo
[pr] ●BertanK: lol'd at theoretical part... could be done in the distant future, who knows anyway, yea, the only way i guess is for players to play the game.
[pr] b0nker2:maybe, but I honestly doubt it, it would open up a can of worms. Like who picks the maps, people leaving immediately etc
[pr] ●BertanK: true that
[pr] b0nker2:you see that happen on EU. example, player 1 picks Turk, player 2 pick Uk player 3 UKR ''omg no ukr turk combo''. imagine it now: 'omg not Spain map'
[pr] ●BertanK: lol. maybe not for official games then, but that discussion is for another time and place
[pr] b0nker2:so yes, it is all about the competitive communities mentality towards the games, as I said in forum being indoctrinated to all play the same countries same strats is not good for competition and becomes monotonous. so they need to widen out and not discourage new tactics or maps.

Interesting insights into the thoughts of b0nker2. It was kind of an elaboration on what others have also said (people need time to get used to the maps). So, to conclude, the majority of players think that players need to adjust to the map first before custom maps can be used for cw's, 3v3's or 1v1 duels. But as we talked about in our discussion with b0nker2, a good player should be able to adjust fairly quick and play decent even if they're placed in a random, fairly balanced map.

Well, that was it for this week. Hope you enjoyed the late article. And so, this weeks lesson is: don't be afraid to open up a competitive custom map and try something new!

See you all in the next article,
BertanK

Chess and bonkers maps are good maps, with EU pd is more or less the power strat can be played almost anywhere, with chess' map NC seems to be the power strat. bonkers ive played less but seems more varied in that theres the right balance of water/land.

but i personally havent played the maps enough to seek out other strong country/strat combos.

for me the reason being its hard to find the motivation to play other maps for any reason other than fun when none of the top clans are going to want to cw on them for fear of losing and it affecting their seasonal standing, and there is some merit to this as the maps are relatively new and untested.

same with duels, if i hosted a duel on destoria im pretty certain almost none of the current pool of duelers would be interested in playing.

the best solution to this is to host tourneys on these maps, this will truly put them to the test. players seeking out strong country strat combos that perhaps even the makers did not forsee

vril said he'd host a tourney on the winning map of his competitive map contest. that should bring one or more of these maps to the fore

GJ BertanK! I think the "pro" players as Bonker described are only used to playing EU and most likely PD... Every once in a while change is good and someone should host one of the competitive custom maps. The tourney Bullet is hosting will help the encouragement of these maps imo.

Kirjoittanut Guest, 09.03.2014 at 21:04

Kirjoittanut JUGERS2, 10.03.2014 at 08:11

Kirjoittanut Guest, 09.03.2014 at 21:04

Kirjoittanut YazanTheSexy, 10.03.2014 at 11:29

Kirjoittanut JUGERS2, 10.03.2014 at 08:11

Kirjoittanut Guest, 09.03.2014 at 21:04

BUT

I submitted two maps for competitive 2v2, 3v3 and 4v4 games... and just got ignored.

Kirjoittanut Columna Durruti, 10.03.2014 at 18:03

BUT

I submitted two maps for competitive 2v2, 3v3 and 4v4 games... and just got ignored.

i entered 1 map: Meester Wars

Competitive custom maps would be great to vary the 3v3/CW games. I've played on bonker's destoria map a few times and it's pretty balanced and a fun map to play on too. I'm looking forward to the Custom Map Tournament


strykoraine op

Well done a developing story from a previous article, eh? I love it!

Kirjoittanut Columna Durruti, 10.03.2014 at 18:03

BUT

I submitted two maps for competitive 2v2, 3v3 and 4v4 games... and just got ignored.

That bias Bert! Let the people hear Columna, nice article.

Good read. Huge sense of relief after reading B0nker's view on the matter. I'm glad at least someone understands the situation.

Kirjoittanut Goblin, 12.03.2014 at 09:50

[pr] b0nker2:In all honesty it is more about familarity, EU is not really a balanced map.

greatest truth.

toplel
Id put that on my old clan quote wall but I'm done with it.

Kirjoittanut Goblin, 12.03.2014 at 11:34

God i log in ...see 2 notifications, thought it was something interesting but ...only meza and avatar saying nothing xD

Omg same feel, except that it's not avatar and alex saying none sense xD

Kirjoittanut Goblin, 12.03.2014 at 11:34

God i log in ...see 2 notifications, thought it was something interesting but ...only meza and avatar saying nothing xD

Kirjoittanut Trooper21, 12.03.2014 at 12:35

Kirjoittanut Goblin, 12.03.2014 at 11:34

God i log in ...see 2 notifications, thought it was something interesting but ...only meza and avatar saying nothing xD

Kirjoittanut Guest, 12.03.2014 at 11:21

Kirjoittanut Goblin, 12.03.2014 at 09:50

[pr] b0nker2:In all honesty it is more about familarity, EU is not really a balanced map.

greatest truth.

toplel
Id put that on my old clan quote wall but I'm done with it.

I can't work out if you are lel'ing because you think EU is balanced? very confused as to what you find funny in the statement

Kirjoittanut b0nker2, 13.03.2014 at 04:27

Kirjoittanut Guest, 12.03.2014 at 11:21

Kirjoittanut Goblin, 12.03.2014 at 09:50

[pr] b0nker2:In all honesty it is more about familarity, EU is not really a balanced map.

greatest truth.

toplel
Id put that on my old clan quote wall but I'm done with it.

I can't work out if you are lel'ing because you think EU is balanced? very confused as to what you find funny in the statement

EU is balanced. Not like west is the same as east, but it is the most balanced map atm.

Kirjoittanut Goblin, 13.03.2014 at 11:14

Kirjoittanut Guest, 13.03.2014 at 11:06

EU is balanced. Not like west is the same as east, but it is the most balanced map atm.

No it's not ...it's totaly unbalanced map. 3v3 must be always the same picks or it gets shity and unbalanced, it's crap for 1v1 games because most countries have a OP counters unless you agree to play balanced picks, low fund 1v1 fights are even more crap, with 3k Serbia being totaly OP and 5k it's played mostly with greece poland etc. etc.

What balance do you see there Alex?

1v1 will always be about counters, no matter what map.
There are op picks in low fund games probably in every map too, it's about having more reinfs and more starting funds but it's not an insta win.
Europe+ is balanced because of the possible moves you can do, the range of units are awesome and how they can exactly reach other cities. Also because of the "zones". Scandi is rich, balkans high reinf, etc.
What I mostly see on these custom maps are cities/caps too close to others and almost same income everywhere.

Kirjoittanut Goblin, 13.03.2014 at 12:02

Kirjoittanut Guest, 13.03.2014 at 11:49

What I mostly see on these custom maps are cities/caps too close to others and almost same income everywhere.

Funny thing is, that is balance! ...europe is the most interesting map, because we all know the map, the tricks, the moves, the expansions, the counters ...but in reality it's totaly unbalanced.

Balanced doesn't mean making every country the same, it's about the range thing, cities position and "zones".

Kirjoittanut Goblin, 13.03.2014 at 12:14

Kirjoittanut Guest, 13.03.2014 at 12:10

Balanced doesn't mean making every country the same, it's about the range thing, cities position and "zones".

Umm yea ...europe still not balanced meza. Pick any country besides turkey for 1v1 and i can name you a OP counter ...ukraine being OP counter for most.

That's true.
In pretty much every west vs east, east has a bigger chance. But same goes for every map, just ask them to not to be fags xD.

If youre looking for true balance the map would need to be mirrored in city positioning and income

however gameplay on such a map would be extrememly bland.

ideally a good map should have a a counter for every strat/country combo

on eu 10k this is true, on eu 5k this is true, on eu 3k this is NOT true(serbia)

but this is why eu 10k is so popular even though it is technically not balanced. the dynamic works, that and i think ppl like playing on real world countries lol

Kirjoittanut Guest, 13.03.2014 at 11:49

Kirjoittanut Goblin, 13.03.2014 at 11:14

Kirjoittanut Guest, 13.03.2014 at 11:06

EU is balanced. Not like west is the same as east, but it is the most balanced map atm.

No it's not ...it's totaly unbalanced map. 3v3 must be always the same picks or it gets shity and unbalanced, it's crap for 1v1 games because most countries have a OP counters unless you agree to play balanced picks, low fund 1v1 fights are even more crap, with 3k Serbia being totaly OP and 5k it's played mostly with greece poland etc. etc.

What balance do you see there Alex?

1v1 will always be about counters, no matter what map.
There are op picks in low fund games probably in every map too, it's about having more reinfs and more starting funds but it's not an insta win.
Europe+ is balanced because of the possible moves you can do, the range of units are awesome and how they can exactly reach other cities. Also because of the "zones". Scandi is rich, balkans high reinf, etc.
What I mostly see on these custom maps are cities/caps too close to others and almost same income everywhere.

I'm not trying to be rude but;

Critical thinking. There's a severe lack of it sometimes.

Kirjoittanut Leaf, 14.03.2014 at 03:19

Kirjoittanut Guest, 13.03.2014 at 11:49

Kirjoittanut Goblin, 13.03.2014 at 11:14

Kirjoittanut Guest, 13.03.2014 at 11:06

EU is balanced. Not like west is the same as east, but it is the most balanced map atm.

No it's not ...it's totaly unbalanced map. 3v3 must be always the same picks or it gets shity and unbalanced, it's crap for 1v1 games because most countries have a OP counters unless you agree to play balanced picks, low fund 1v1 fights are even more crap, with 3k Serbia being totaly OP and 5k it's played mostly with greece poland etc. etc.

What balance do you see there Alex?

1v1 will always be about counters, no matter what map.
There are op picks in low fund games probably in every map too, it's about having more reinfs and more starting funds but it's not an insta win.
Europe+ is balanced because of the possible moves you can do, the range of units are awesome and how they can exactly reach other cities. Also because of the "zones". Scandi is rich, balkans high reinf, etc.
What I mostly see on these custom maps are cities/caps too close to others and almost same income everywhere.

I'm not trying to be rude but;

Critical thinking. There's a severe lack of it sometimes.

Came out from bonker so I didn't take it like a big deal.

Kirjoittanut Goblin, 14.03.2014 at 09:07

Kirjoittanut Guest, 14.03.2014 at 08:49

Came out from bonker so I didn't take it like a big deal.

Came out from alexmeza so i didnt take it like a big deal. xD

Omg

Kirjoittanut Guest, 14.03.2014 at 08:49

Kirjoittanut Leaf, 14.03.2014 at 03:19

Kirjoittanut Guest, 13.03.2014 at 11:49

Kirjoittanut Goblin, 13.03.2014 at 11:14

Kirjoittanut Guest, 13.03.2014 at 11:06

EU is balanced. Not like west is the same as east, but it is the most balanced map atm.

No it's not ...it's totaly unbalanced map. 3v3 must be always the same picks or it gets shity and unbalanced, it's crap for 1v1 games because most countries have a OP counters unless you agree to play balanced picks, low fund 1v1 fights are even more crap, with 3k Serbia being totaly OP and 5k it's played mostly with greece poland etc. etc.

What balance do you see there Alex?

1v1 will always be about counters, no matter what map.
There are op picks in low fund games probably in every map too, it's about having more reinfs and more starting funds but it's not an insta win.
Europe+ is balanced because of the possible moves you can do, the range of units are awesome and how they can exactly reach other cities. Also because of the "zones". Scandi is rich, balkans high reinf, etc.
What I mostly see on these custom maps are cities/caps too close to others and almost same income everywhere.

I'm not trying to be rude but;

Critical thinking. There's a severe lack of it sometimes.

Came out from bonker so I didn't take it like a big deal.

Arrogant and dumb, what is your problem? Every post you make you come across like an arrogant asshole. Alexmeza acting like my opinion doesn't matter because I am b0nker and he doesn't rate me as a player? You really are an idiot Alex, always with ignorant viewpoints.

you are right nobody cares about my viewpoints, but even less care about yours.

btw Alex, I am a more creative and stylish player then you could ever hope to be don't hate because you can only play PD x

Kirjoittanut b0nker2, 14.03.2014 at 11:15

Kirjoittanut Guest, 14.03.2014 at 08:49

Kirjoittanut Leaf, 14.03.2014 at 03:19

Kirjoittanut Guest, 13.03.2014 at 11:49

Kirjoittanut Goblin, 13.03.2014 at 11:14

Kirjoittanut Guest, 13.03.2014 at 11:06

EU is balanced. Not like west is the same as east, but it is the most balanced map atm.

No it's not ...it's totaly unbalanced map. 3v3 must be always the same picks or it gets shity and unbalanced, it's crap for 1v1 games because most countries have a OP counters unless you agree to play balanced picks, low fund 1v1 fights are even more crap, with 3k Serbia being totaly OP and 5k it's played mostly with greece poland etc. etc.

What balance do you see there Alex?

1v1 will always be about counters, no matter what map.
There are op picks in low fund games probably in every map too, it's about having more reinfs and more starting funds but it's not an insta win.
Europe+ is balanced because of the possible moves you can do, the range of units are awesome and how they can exactly reach other cities. Also because of the "zones". Scandi is rich, balkans high reinf, etc.
What I mostly see on these custom maps are cities/caps too close to others and almost same income everywhere.

I'm not trying to be rude but;

Critical thinking. There's a severe lack of it sometimes.

Came out from bonker so I didn't take it like a big deal.

Arrogant and dumb, what is your problem? Every post you make you come across like an arrogant asshole. Alexmeza acting like my opinion doesn't matter because I am b0nker and he doesn't rate me as a player? You really are an idiot Alex, always with ignorant viewpoints.

you are right nobody cares about my viewpoints, but even less care about yours.

btw Alex, I am a more creative and stylish player then you could ever hope to be don't hate because you can only play PD x

Oh hey it seems someone got butthurt. xD
^ He ignored me btw.
I said that since you think I am too serious and you probably don't take everything serious like you go france GW because it's really serious. you are vry serious. srs
I don't only play PD, don't say bullshit. LB best strat.

PD. SM. - Couldn't get more of a 'standard' player,

Kirjoittanut b0nker2, 14.03.2014 at 13:36

PD. SM. - Couldn't get more of a 'standard' player,

You can't rely on my profile :l
SM because all I played when I was rank 5-7 was Spain SM thanks to zog who was nice to me
MoS because I used to play world games more often, and eurasia.
I'm not a 'standard' player. PD is a 'standard' strategy but using a same strat most of the time doesn't make me a 'standard' player. You can do anything with any strat, not to mention I like to go LB sometimes.
I'm not that kind of fag that always plays the same or repeats moves, and I don't know what you got against me using PD.