A discussion on competitiveness.

This topic is regarding clan wars and how many coalitions take part in playing.

Well CWing is getting very boring and losing its enjoyment very fast. Why? Well because there is only about 4 clans that will clan war you. The rest just say no or make a silly excuse. (Example) I am getting tired of fighting Waffel, clovis, spart.. or bonker, bertan, adiabatic.. Meaning I play them so much I want to see someone/something original. And in a clan most of you will probably play as the other one does.



Question: How does this get fixed?

Answer: Well, admins already made double sp for it and now doesn't show losses on clans only wins.
(That isn't working)

The thing is people are humiliated if they make a clan and start 0:5 or even 0:10. Well hats off to you cause you actually clanwar unlike the 95% of atwar clans. They're also afraid of getting trolled or being called names cause they lost. Which again I can't blame them, It is discouraging. I guess Vril was right when he told me the competitiveness was dead.

--I miss when I was back in Syndicate and clans such as The Ancients, Art of War, Campfire Fellowship, .187., L.B, Elite Comrades would all clan war. All of those clans literally vanished after Spring season. Those are just a few clans. Could you imagine if we actually had 10+ clans willing to clan war? Just 10! And i'm not talking about 1 or 2 cws either. I'm talking 20+.

I got my clan evoL past 100 clanwars since August 8th of 2013..Why? That's something we love to do. We have fun doing it as a clan regardless to what other people say. Yeah we have a lot of losses but I don't even care, it was worth the fun playing by the side of my clan members. I loved helping them progress. It's something words can't really describe. Being apart of something awesome. That's why clans like Stalins Martians, Syndicate, Victorious Secret are all here and active today. They are a group of people who like playing together and enjoy clan warring..

I'm just trying to persuade people who are on the edge of maybe making a clan to go and do it! There is nothing to lose! You will meet new people and make each other better. The only way to learn is by losing.

*Disclaimer: Some may think the current CW system drives new people away. But that is false. The old clans maybe, but not the new ones.

How about, it gets boring playing the same setting, same map, with the same picks. Eventually, your going to get a few people who play only that, and specialize in only that. Why would new cln play against clns that only play that map, over and over.

I rather see wager matches, in regular games, a clan can bet another clan how much points. The key is regular games, so their is a bunch of variables, like other players. It would make WW2 a whole lot more intense.

Thats why they should have 2 leagues for clan war a minor one and the majors when minor clan wins first place for a season it goes to the majors

I also dont like playing CWs on eu+ over and over again. Just because People are used to that map doesn't mean we cant Play on custom maps as well (yes it is possible already). I think we should promote some good custom maps for cw

I think to make more Clans willing to Play cws and also on various maps. We should make a few good maps for cw. These should be highlighted in the maps overview as cw maps <3
In Addition there could be send a message to low ranks (when a Player reaches rank 4 for instance), where he/she/it gets some informations about Clans, cws,...
But we should also make cws more attractive, because double sp doesn't Sound very attractive for me. I want some sexy presents if i Play cw. I mean cws are an public Event, where you should get a high amount of sp (VIPs also get high salarys), People should think that you are sp farming if you Play cws. so i would say 4 times the sp you earned or even more


what do you say

Kirjoittanut Cpt.Magic, 29.12.2013 at 12:17

Thats why they should have 2 leagues for clan war a minor one and the majors when minor clan wins first place for a season it goes to the majors

league System is also fine, but you Need a few more active Clans first (maybe for the html5 Version then, first a fast and simple solution maybe)

Competitiveness is dead. Point blank period. I stopped enjoying playing CWs long ago. Look at TC record, we win a lot but we don't play a ton either. I don't know what can save the competitiveness. The only thing that keeps me here is that I want to bring more people to this game. I don't even give them the refer link because most of the time they're annoyed by it. I go to Armor Games, Kongregate and even Ninja Kiwi to spread word of atWar. You can even see me on freaking StarCraft and Steam! My username is even 'atWarMadara'. But, what I get the most is that people on atWar are 'jerks'. That the forum is a mess. That this community is trash. Why is this? Anything come to mind?

I've convinced 93 random people on these websites to try atWar. Not ONE has signed on in the last 24 days. A pathetic figure if you ask me.

If anyone has any suggestions on how to mend both of these issues then I'm here to help. Maybe this game will blow up in time and we have nothing to worry about? Or this slow pace will soon falter.
Huzzah.

Good topic Mr Own U, I was making my own topic to address and fix the problems in the ideas section two days ago but didn't get around to posting it. We definitely need more people in coalitions though, and I agree with you.

Kirjoittanut Safari, 29.12.2013 at 12:25

In Addition there could be send a message to low ranks (when a Player reaches rank 4 for instance), where he/she/it gets some informations about Clans, cws,...

This definitely needs to be done. We should have an automatic message or notification with a short introduction to coalitions, then give a link to the recruitment part of the forums and the cln leaderboards.

Kirjoittanut Safari, 29.12.2013 at 12:25

But we should also make cws more attractive, because double sp doesn't Sound very attractive for me. I want some sexy presents if i Play cw. I mean cws are an public Event, where you should get a high amount of sp (VIPs also get high salarys), People should think that you are sp farming if you Play cws. so i would say 4 times the sp you earned or even more

4x sp may be a bit much, even this 2x is a huge jump from normal games. We need some kind of other incentive. Not protocoins, that's atWar's income, perhaps something to do with normal games. Maybe play 1 CW, and for the next day in normal games you don't lose half your SP when you lose. Also add levels/ranks to a coalition? You gain xp(CP might have a reason to exist now!) as you CW. Or just an aim for CW's played, and everyone inside a clan gets some kind of bonus.

Imagine making a new clan, and you're automatically sent a message about the aims. You get the same message from joining a clan. The message reads something like, "Get to 20 CW's and everyone in the entire coalition gets a 1.2x SP boost for five days!" And keep raising the bar. So once they reach 20, a message will be sent to every coalition member saying "Get to 50 CW's and everyone in the entire coalition gets a 1.4x SP boost for a week!" Also note that winning or losing doesn't matter for this. You just need to have CW's played.

I'm going to address the rest of your post, Safari, in a new thread I have in the making.

Kirjoittanut Madara, 29.12.2013 at 12:41

Competitiveness is dead. Point blank period. I stopped enjoying playing CWs long ago. Look at TC record, we win a lot but we don't play a ton either. I don't know what can save the competitiveness. The only thing that keeps me here is that I want to bring more people to this game. I don't even give them the refer link because most of the time they're annoyed by it. I go to Armor Games, Kongregate and even Ninja Kiwi to spread work of atWar. You can even see me on freaking StarCraft and Steam! My username is even 'atWarMadara'. But, what I get the most is that people on atWar are 'jerks'. That the forum is a mess. That this community is trash. Why is this? Anything come to mind?

I've convinced 93 random people on these websites to try atWar. Not ONE has signed on in the last 24 days. A pathetic figure if you ask me.

If anyone has any suggestions on how to mend both of these issues then I'm here to help. Maybe this game will blow up in time and we have nothing to worry about? Or this slow pace will soon falter.
Huzzah.

Unless a game has something cool to see in the first 5 seconds of being here, or the first game they play, there's not a lot you can do to make people stay. I imagine using word of mouth to spread a game is pretty hard without something special to sell the game itself. Also the forum does feel 2004-tier, it isn't very updated and is a mess.

Here's to hoping HTML5 makes the game a lot more appealing.

Thing is, I don't like 3 vs 3, because as soon as you try to do something NEW, people starting bitching at you.

if it works you get told that is stupid and risky, if it doesn't they hate you for it.

*cough* turkey blitz *cough* ;/

Hmm, I'm actually enjoying the Clan Warring at the moment, activity wise at least there are many more games being played (even is same 4/5 clans). It does need to be changed though, and I completely agree with tunder on this one about new things getting shot down, happens in public 3v3 also.

I think cw should be a random 3 vs 3 match , so map goes random you dont know what are you going to play !! maybe pacific map? maybe euro+ or middle east map or africa !! and a random starting funds from 10 k to 3k maybe you start with 4352 gold :P it is random with this cln war will get a real fight game that you dont know what you have to play with!!!

Kirjoittanut Cthulhu, 29.12.2013 at 12:05

I rather see wager matches, in regular games, a clan can bet another clan how much points. The key is regular games, so their is a bunch of variables, like other players. It would make WW2 a whole lot more intense.

Sounds good, something like a test match would be great, for example 1v1 2v2 3v3 (best of 3) or random map generator for cws(although this has flaws).

How would wager matches work? Are we betting with CP or SP?

Kirjoittanut b0nker2, 29.12.2013 at 13:48

Kirjoittanut Cthulhu, 29.12.2013 at 12:05

I rather see wager matches, in regular games, a clan can bet another clan how much points. The key is regular games, so their is a bunch of variables, like other players. It would make WW2 a whole lot more intense.

Sounds good, something like a test match would be great, for example 1v1 2v2 3v3 (best of 3) or random map generator for cws(although this has flaws).

How would wager matches work? Are we betting with CP or SP?

Could be both, it would give a lot of adrenaline rush when you realize each player on the team may lose 2k sp But i rather see them in normal setting (because most of the game occur in regular games, not cln war), and perhaps can only be declared first turn.

Also, this whole "competitiveness" thing is just a veil. I don't remember this term being used at all back during Afterwind. I believe this is some new-age jargon that came out when UN started first appearing.

I want to point out, that all games are competitive, and I will give you an analogy:

Its like track, eu+ is like a 100m sprint and world is like 1600m run. They are both very competitive, and both very different, it just that since eu+ is smaller, it ends quicker. However, in both instances, you compete to win, it not like your picking flowers or farming on facebook.

You will have people who specialize in one event, because that all they play, and if that all you play, yea, i can imagine it getting boring quick.

I like the Clan Goals too, These would make Clans way More important. Ideas in this Area would be cool if you have some

If it helps with discussion: Back in mah' day, you could play whatever map you wanted for CW's, as long as both clans agreed. Nobody really specialized in anything, and terms like "Adapt" were thrown around a lot. I think the real 'Competitive' vein in AtWar can be achieved if players would start trying new things to test their skills, instead of 3v3 EU+. With clans, the golden age of WBL, SRB, SF, TE, /int/, and all of those other huge, ancient clans cannot be replicated anymore with a system where competition outweighs fun and learning. I see many new clans trying to focus on rational competition, but never on actually improving themselves or others outside of the clan, and eventually these clans always dies as well.

Just a few cents, hope it helps.

Aww god, another 'the old days were better' post from gardevoir, sorry mate they were not mine nor 95% of the communities 'golden days' its 2014 in 2 days please no more posts referring to 2011 - we get it you loved that time.

Competition is not dead, just needs a change. Atm Eu+ is the only map really viable, some suggestions have been thrown up for other maps to use but as yet I am to see one good enough to use.

Also to this 'I see many new clans trying to focus on rational competition, but never on actually improving themselves or others outside of the clan, and eventually these clans always dies as well' - you are wrong the clans that are here now evolve new tactics and learn more than any, must TB that unit, must TB this unit ever did.

Kirjoittanut Chess, 29.12.2013 at 16:41

3v3 10k is lacking diversity thats why I created a topic a few month ago.
http://atwar-game.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=10169

Since I had the feeling that people got used to Europe+ and didnt want to switch to another map I proposed to try different settings.
Almost nothing has changed.
Apart from some duels, most competitive players are still playing 3v3 10k mainly.
40 Days ago when I asked some peoples to duel they always declined f.e 5k 2initial countries Europe+ as a settings however most people agreed on 10k Europe+.

I see so many players complaining that the admins are not bringing enough updates to the game.
It´s us who can change the game, they gave us the tools to do it, we can make custom maps with custom units, why not make a more balanced europe+ map and more balanced units with it? Or try new maps for competive games?
Safari´s map Lunatis is awesome for example

Chess

In 1v1 terms yes different settings work, for me in team games 10k is the only real viable one, 5k is a little formulaic and 15k makes a couple of really op countries,

You are right though Chess, what we should be doing is getting some great map makers and some great team game players to work on a map that can be used for clan wars.

Kirjoittanut YazanTheSexy, 29.12.2013 at 13:47

I think cw should be a random 3 vs 3 match , so map goes random you dont know what are you going to play !!

Kirjoittanut b0nker2, 29.12.2013 at 13:48

or random map generator for cws(although this has flaws).

Kirjoittanut Goblin, 29.12.2013 at 15:13

Yazan random maps - like that idea

Damn it guys, here I was making a random map thread for two days and you've already talked about it. Alas, I'll just go with it anyway. Good stuff though.

Kirjoittanut b0nker2, 29.12.2013 at 16:47

Aww god, another 'the old days were better' post from gardevoir, sorry mate they were not mine nor 95% of the communities 'golden days' its 2014 in 2 days please no more posts referring to 2011 - we get it you loved that time.

Competition is not dead, just needs a change. Atm Eu+ is the only map really viable, some suggestions have been thrown up for other maps to use but as yet I am to see one good enough to use.

Also to this 'I see many new clans trying to focus on rational competition, but never on actually improving themselves or others outside of the clan, and eventually these clans always dies as well' - you are wrong the clans that are here now evolve new tactics and learn more than any, must TB that unit, must TB this unit ever did.

2011 > 2013 because 2013 = Degenerate children bitching about playing fair in an unfair world.

In my opinion I don't want to use a custom map for a CW. I like EU+, hell I don't even mind eurasia. It's the way this "generation" of players were brought up.

Kirjoittanut b0nker2, 29.12.2013 at 16:47

please no more posts referring to 2011 - we get it you loved that time.

Now if you would kindly put forward your views on how to make 2014 better in regards to competition ...thanks

Kirjoittanut b0nker2, 29.12.2013 at 18:18

Kirjoittanut b0nker2, 29.12.2013 at 16:47

please no more posts referring to 2011 - we get it you loved that time.

Now if you would kindly put forward your views on how to make 2014 better in regards to competition ...thanks

I have, nobody listens to me unless I offend them.

Kirjoittanut Guest, 29.12.2013 at 18:44

Kirjoittanut b0nker2, 29.12.2013 at 18:18

Kirjoittanut b0nker2, 29.12.2013 at 16:47

please no more posts referring to 2011 - we get it you loved that time.

Now if you would kindly put forward your views on how to make 2014 better in regards to competition ...thanks

I have, nobody listens to me unless I offend them.

Crash course public speaking 200

A good persuasion technique is getting the !!!person to like you!!!!, and to offer them something in return.
doesn't matter about logos or pathos if ethos is not there. ethos is most important, then pathos.

Tailor your speech to your audience, also keep in mind their mindset, one that accepting, the neutral, and the rejecting.

tell them what you going to tell them - tell them - tell them what you know

Kirjoittanut Cthulhu, 29.12.2013 at 19:21

Kirjoittanut Guest, 29.12.2013 at 18:44

Kirjoittanut b0nker2, 29.12.2013 at 18:18

Kirjoittanut b0nker2, 29.12.2013 at 16:47

please no more posts referring to 2011 - we get it you loved that time.

Now if you would kindly put forward your views on how to make 2014 better in regards to competition ...thanks

I have, nobody listens to me unless I offend them.

Crash course public speaking 200

A good persuasion technique is getting the !!!person to like you!!!!, and to offer them something in return.
doesn't matter about logos or pathos if ethos is not there. ethos is most important, then pathos.

Tailor your speech to your audience, also keep in mind their mindset, one that accepting, the neutral, and the rejecting.

tell them what you going to tell them - tell them - tell them what you know

And if my audience cannot comprehend anything besides maymays and how to operate a keyboard? This community is fucked, from whichever angle you look at it in. There's no reason to even attempt to persuade people when you've already attempted to a million times before.

Kirjoittanut VRIL, 04.10.2013 at 15:26

Its about balance mostly. Geography is another factor.

Id say you need a bunch of big countries (ger, fra, UK) small and medium countries (balkans) high income, low reinforcement countries (skandinavia, benelux) and a few high reinforcement (turkey) countries. Just get inspired by the european region and you should be fine. You dont have that diversity in other regions of the world.

^^^^ This is why Europe is so beautiful, it is completely and utterly balanced. So naturally, it would be the most played. Although i agree some change might be needed thats why i am trying to make a map resembling Europe's raw components ; High income low reinforcement, high reinforcements low income, and some big countries. This is whats needed, a balanced map. Very plain and simple. People don't cw on custom maps because it is very hard to balance them. And as VRIL said Europe is the most balanced default map out there. There needs to be some diversity though, different maps different settings are always fun too!

Kirjoittanut b0nker2, 29.12.2013 at 16:52

You are right though Chess, what we should be doing is getting some great map makers and some great team game players to work on a map that can be used for clan wars.

Kirjoittanut VRIL, 04.10.2013 at 15:26

Its about balance mostly. Geography is another factor.

Id say you need a bunch of big countries (ger, fra, UK) small and medium countries (balkans) high income, low reinforcement countries (skandinavia, benelux) and a few high reinforcement (turkey) countries. Just get inspired by the european region and you should be fine. You dont have that diversity in other regions of the world.

this ^^

any new map would need to be a reasonable size as well, on EU+ CWs generally dont go on much longer than hour

Kirjoittanut Desu, 29.12.2013 at 17:27

Kirjoittanut YazanTheSexy, 29.12.2013 at 13:47

I think cw should be a random 3 vs 3 match , so map goes random you dont know what are you going to play !!

Kirjoittanut b0nker2, 29.12.2013 at 13:48

or random map generator for cws(although this has flaws).

Kirjoittanut Goblin, 29.12.2013 at 15:13

Yazan random maps - like that idea

Damn it guys, here I was making a random map thread for two days and you've already talked about it. Alas, I'll just go with it anyway. Good stuff though.

I DIDNT SEE YOUR YOUR THREAD , and if you did good for you , this mean you support the idea

Kirjoittanut YazanTheSexy, 30.12.2013 at 06:25

I DIDNT SEE YOUR YOUR THREAD , and if you did good for you , this mean you support the idea

Here we are, I posted it after a bit yesterday.

http://atwar-game.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=11512

Kirjoittanut Tundy, 29.12.2013 at 13:30

Thing is, I don't like 3 vs 3, because as soon as you try to do something NEW, people starting bitching at you.

if it works you get told that is stupid and risky, if it doesn't they hate you for it.

*cough* turkey blitz *cough* ;/

This is really becoming an issue^^. If people can't get away with doing something creative in a strategy game then what can they do, this is leading to mentalities like Cthulhu's saying they are getting bored by doing the same thing over and over. Frankly, he is 100% right. If each time you play and pick UK, stack bene wf france and jew germany then you get bored. I was in a 3v3 where someone picked sweden and someone spain as enemies, UK as an ally in west. He wanted me to pick France so he can get Germany i guess, i picked Germany having in mind to block sweden, expand and fund east. Even if i was wrong it didn't affect the whole outcome of the game, as Germany i bet i could have killed Sweden or at least blocked it, while harassing balkans and funding east. I don't know which was better but because i didn't fall into Buffalo Soldier's narrow minded idea of a 3v3, i got kicked. Since then i don't want to enter any of his game afraid of screwing up a little and getting kicked. Though i laugh knowing my creativity and strategic insight will soon surpass how narrow minded mentality when i learn the game more. This narrow mind set is doing nothing but hurting the game and making the communities jackass level rise through the roof.

His idol is Unleashed. What do you expect?