Remove 2x SP from Clan Wars

Kirjoittanut Khal.eesi, 06.05.2015 at 08:56

My opinions on this summarized

1. i dont care personally wether u remove x2 or add x200 or -200

b.) i feel however a reward of somekind should be made to frequent cw players, low and high ranks.

2. 1 cw = 200 rps, skillwise. So x2 doesnt really sound so unfair.

3. @ clovis the classic competitive- hater/betrayor

We wanted more cws and we got them. We have a very active season and a new clan Coza took Illyrias place this season and pushed forward in activity and skill. Problem is the skill gap, because most people have reached a high skill level now. You cant ask players after a certain point to go back and play 3v3s instead of cwing. "3v3" is another term for "practice game", in most cases people are trying stuff, training or plain trolling. They dont communicate, they dont send money east and they dont play for the team but for themselves, in most cases. So why the hell would i want to go back and play 3v3 now, unless i want to try something new or de-rust a little?

p.s. also, x2 sp on cws is not incentive but a tool for those few ranks 6,7 and 8 who bust their ass to play competitively and only gain the little sp, 3v3's offer. I admire these low ranks and they are one reason you shouldnt take this away from them.

Agree for the low ranks. I think we could do a mix of both Raul and International propositions.

Restrict the sp bonus so that high rank don't get it ( No particular need for them anyways) and settle a limit of game played with 2x Sp bonus.
The real point is about making anything so that low ranks come play cw's so let's think about that.

CLOVIS FOR MOD ZONE FOR NEW GOD ! PANTERI GRANDMASTER AND OPI JUST OP ! URAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
o yea make it x4 sp in cw i wanna get rank 18 asp!!!

Kirjoittanut Zone, 06.05.2015 at 09:08

Agree for the low ranks. I think we could do a mix of both Raul and International propositions.

Restrict the sp bonus so that high rank don't get it ( No particular need for them anyways) and settle a limit of game played with 2x Sp bonus.
The real point is about making anything so that low ranks come play cw's so let's think about that.

I don't like this. But it's a very good compromise.

Full support. This is as good as we're going to get, I think.

I'm going to let Clovis or someone else argue Khaleesi, since I have no desire to be cursed at again.

Kirjoittanut International, 06.05.2015 at 10:17

Just a little observation: don't judge the SP bonus for low ranks as a way to encourage them to play CW but instead understand it as a way to stimulate them to learn the actual game mechanics beyond spamming units and bunkers. I don't see the bad intentions in that, it's actually something really needed in a game like this. And even in this situation, the SP that can be made by cwing is lower than by playing scenarios, specially if they lose, in which case it is ridiculously low.

Kirjoittanut RaulPB, 06.05.2015 at 10:24

Just a little observation: don't judge the SP bonus for low ranks as a way to encourage them to play CW but instead understand it as a way to stimulate them to learn the actual game mechanics beyond spamming units and bunkers. I don't see the bad intentions in that, it's actually something really needed in a game like this. And even in this situation, the SP that can be made by cwing is lower than by playing scenarios, specially if they lose, in which case it is ridiculously low.

There is no reason to stimulate low ranks to learn the general mechanics. The Default Map advertises itself pretty well. No push is necessary here.

Kirjoittanut International, 06.05.2015 at 10:30

There is no reason to stimulate low ranks to learn the general mechanics. The Default Map advertises itself pretty well. No push is necessary here.

I'm sorry but I can't agree with that. Maybe my opinion is not objective cause I learned the mechanics myself and I find them to be the most important part of this game but it is my opinion and I find that everyone should learn to actually play this game beyond from spamming units and playing RP. I don't mean to say that you only have to play competitive games but you need to try it all in order to actually enjoy and feel that you're playing this game, it has much more to offer than many people might think. It's worth learning. People that play 50k world games, even if in the default map, won't learn much just by playing those. You should know quite well what I mean.

Kirjoittanut RaulPB, 06.05.2015 at 10:35

Kirjoittanut International, 06.05.2015 at 10:30

There is no reason to stimulate low ranks to learn the general mechanics. The Default Map advertises itself pretty well. No push is necessary here.

I'm sorry but I can't agree with that. Maybe my opinion is not objective cause I learned the mechanics myself and I find them to be the most important part of this game but it is my opinion and I find that everyone should learn to actually play this game beyond from spamming units and playing RP. I don't mean to say that you only have to play competitive games but you need to try it all in order to actually enjoy and feel that you're playing this game, it has much more to offer than many people might think. It's worth learning. People that play 50k world games, even if in the default map, won't learn much.

I fully agree, but I'm saying that competitive games are not the only way to achieve that.

4/6/8 player Europe or 8/10/20 player Default world free-for-all games, which are so abundant in the beginner lobby that further advertisement is redundant, also is an excellent way to learn this game.

Better, in fact, because you need to really develop your diplomatic skills to win a free-for-all.

Kirjoittanut International, 06.05.2015 at 10:39

I fully agree, but I'm saying that competitive games are not the only way to achieve that.

4/6/8 player Europe or 8/10/20 player Default world free-for-all games, which are so abundant in the beginner lobby that further advertisement is redundant, also is an excellent way to learn this game.

I've met people that only play world maps, they're not "noobs" but can't be compared at any level with a Eu player. Playing in such big maps makes the use of skills less relevant than in a smaller map with more conflicts going on in fewer time. They also rank up faster and don't have by any means the same experience and knowledge as a Eu player has. Competitive games are the most effective way to learn as far as I've seen until now.

Besides, FFA games are in danger of extinction...

Kirjoittanut RaulPB, 06.05.2015 at 10:43

I've met people that only play world maps, they're not "noobs" but can't be compared at any level with a Eu player. Playing in such big maps makes the use of skills less relevant than in a smaller map with more conflicts going on in fewer time. They also rank up faster and don't have by any means the same experience and knowledge as a Eu player has. Competitive games are the most effective way to learn as far as I've seen until now.

Besides, FFA games are in danger of extinction...

Try a 9 player Euro+ game with 1 maximum alliance, and then try telling me that free-for-alls doesn't seriously tax your skills.

I'll repeat something I said on the last page that only Desu aknowledged...

Whatever system we end up with won't mean shit if it's not advertised. Unless there is a note (preferably on something like the tutorial and/or lobby) that states "hey earn 2x the SP by CWing!" no low rank will ever know about it or use it and we'd just be going around in circles.

Kirjoittanut Fockmeeard, 06.05.2015 at 13:05

I'll repeat something I said on the last page that only Desu aknowledged...

Whatever system we end up with won't mean shit if it's not advertised. Unless there is a note (preferably on something like the tutorial and/or lobby) that states "hey earn 2x the SP by CWing!" no low rank will ever know about it or use it and we'd just be going around in circles.

Also having your first cw and then discovering a bonus amount of sp keeps you coming back

Kirjoittanut International, 06.05.2015 at 10:51

Try a 9 player Euro+ game with 1 maximum alliance, and then try telling me that free-for-alls doesn't seriously tax your skills.

First of all, you were talking about World Map games, not Europe, which is the map I was talking about.
Besides it's not the first time people "cheat" in FFA games.

Kirjoittanut RaulPB, 06.05.2015 at 16:10

Kirjoittanut International, 06.05.2015 at 10:51

Try a 9 player Euro+ game with 1 maximum alliance, and then try telling me that free-for-alls doesn't seriously tax your skills.

First of all, you were talking about World Map games, not Europe, which is the map I was talking about.
Besides it's not the first time people "cheat" in FFA games.

I was talking about free-for-all games in general, which includes Europe and World games.
Besides, I only really consider collusion cheating if an agreement was made before the game starts. Obviously, "hey, let's stop fighting for a while so we can take down this other guy" is a totally valid form of diplomacy. Because, you know, there can eventually only be one winner in the end.

Kirjoittanut International, 06.05.2015 at 10:17

I'm going to let Clovis or someone else argue Khaleesi, since I have no desire to be cursed at again.

Too bad I won't neither.

I've give up in this discussion. For archive what I desire, a more radical change to the whole SP system is indeed needed.

@Raul: Keep saying they don't play for SP as much as you want,but honestly it is very common that one person plays for SP, for Rank up, etc etc...

I still think they shouldn't earn it so easy, but this comment coming from me, a RP defender, might sound shocking and contradicting... even I feel my thoughts are like that. That's why I didn't replied to zone neither, he's right about the strange theories.

@Topic:

Whatever is discussed and agreed here, please don't force any change that seems controversial, so we don't have the same success as when blitz got nerfed... Might as well give this some days, for construct and structure the ideas, alternatives to the currently 2x multiplier. Then, making a Poll (Like Sun Tzu does) would'be cool, helps to track the most popular one and reduces the chances of an unfair decision.

Kirjoittanut International, 07.05.2015 at 02:37

I was talking about free-for-all games in general, which includes Europe and World games.
Besides, I only really consider collusion cheating if an agreement was made before the game starts. Obviously, "hey, let's stop fighting for a while so we can take down this other guy" is a totally valid form of diplomacy. Because, you know, there can eventually only be one winner in the end.

In my case I'm talking about Eu games in general compared to World games in general.
It may be valid in a non FFA game. If we're talking about a FFA game, then my answer is no. FFA means no diplomacy. If you're gonna be a coward or a weak smartass, then go play a normal game, not a FFA one.

Kirjoittanut clovis1122, 07.05.2015 at 03:41

@Raul: Keep saying they don't play for SP as much as you want,but honestly it is very common that one person plays for SP, for Rank up, etc etc... I still think they shouldn't earn it so easy,

You do realize that a noob in a cw will have it tougher than ever to earn those SP right? Even in the case he plays just for the SP, unless he learns to play (which is the initial aim of this) he won't get any SP at all.

Kirjoittanut RaulPB, 07.05.2015 at 07:04

Kirjoittanut International, 07.05.2015 at 02:37

I was talking about free-for-all games in general, which includes Europe and World games.
Besides, I only really consider collusion cheating if an agreement was made before the game starts. Obviously, "hey, let's stop fighting for a while so we can take down this other guy" is a totally valid form of diplomacy. Because, you know, there can eventually only be one winner in the end.

In my case I'm talking about Eu games in general compared to World games in general.
It may be valid in a non FFA game. If we're talking about a FFA game, then my answer is no. FFA means no diplomacy. If you're gonna be a coward or a weak smartass, then go play a normal game, not a FFA one.

Free-for-all games provide one key thing that other games don't. An environment where there can only one winner. Which, by the way, makes negotiations so much more interesting, as everyone knows that eventually you have to stab your ally or he will stab you.

Kirjoittanut International, 07.05.2015 at 10:11

Free-for-all games provide one key thing that other games don't. An environment where there can only one winner. Which, by the way, makes negotiations so much more interesting, as everyone knows that eventually you have to stab your ally or he will stab you.

Don't you get it? FFA GAMES IMPLY NO NEGOTIATIONS, NO ALLIES, NO DIPLOMACY, NO FUCKING SHIT AT ALL!!! Fucking understand it already!!! This shitty RP mentality everywhere... it's outrageous!! LEARN TO BE SELF-RELIANT!!

U all could try play more and shit on forum less.

Kirjoittanut RaulPB, 07.05.2015 at 10:13

Kirjoittanut International, 07.05.2015 at 10:11

Free-for-all games provide one key thing that other games don't. An environment where there can only one winner. Which, by the way, makes negotiations so much more interesting, as everyone knows that eventually you have to stab your ally or he will stab you.

Don't you get it? FFA GAMES IMPLY NO NEGOTIATIONS, NO ALLIES, NO DIPLOMACY, NO FUCKING SHIT AT ALL!!! Fucking understand it already!!! This shitty RP mentality everywhere... it's outrageous!! LEARN TO BE SELF-RELIANT!!

Free-for-all means that you can fight whoever you choose to. It doesn't mean you're forced to fight everyone you share a border with.
Self-reliant? Ha. At least I now know where your radical opinions come from.

Kirjoittanut International, 07.05.2015 at 10:33

Free-for-all means that you can fight whoever you choose to. It doesn't mean you're forced to fight everyone you share a border with.
Self-reliant? Ha. At least I now know where your radical opinions come from.

Omg, FFA games are meant to not have any ally or peace... why the heck can't you get that into your head? Is it that hard for you to accept there being no diplomacy at all?? Does RP need to be in every single stage of this game?
Ok, where do my so called "radical" opinions come from??

Kirjoittanut clovis1122, 07.05.2015 at 11:12

you earn the same for losing a CW and winning a 3vs3. fairness where? You say is hard to get SP, I don't see how it is...

I think (and this is my opinion) that rewarding someone for playing a competitive kind of game which involves a higher efford than a friendly 3 vs 3 isn't foolish, agree? The problem is what could actually be this "prize". With my idea, you'd need to be a really low rank to get the x2 bonus so you can asume you'll never get the same amount for wining than for losing a game. There's also Hell's idea, which could probably work as well but would be harder to implement. So, what would be the ideal temporary solution? I really can't come up with something better... giving away PC seems a bad business for the admins and there's not much more than can be given away.

Kirjoittanut RaulPB, 07.05.2015 at 11:20

Kirjoittanut clovis1122, 07.05.2015 at 11:12

you earn the same for losing a CW and winning a 3vs3. fairness where? You say is hard to get SP, I don't see how it is...

I think (and this is my opinion) that rewarding someone for playing a competitive kind of game which involves a higher efford than a friendly 3 vs 3 isn't foolish, agree? The problem is what could actually be this "prize". With my idea, you'd need to be a really low rank to get the x2 bonus so you can asume you'll never get the same amount for wining than for losing a game. There's also Hell's idea, which could probably work as well but would be harder to implement. So, what would be the ideal temporary solution? I really can't come up with something better... giving away PC seems a bad business for the admins and there's not much more than can be given away.

As of now proto are useless, add to it and make it obtainable via clan war, they will drum up interest in it and those rich kids can buy it the lazy way.

Kirjoittanut Helly, 07.05.2015 at 11:47

As of now proto are useless, add to it and make it obtainable via clan war, they will drum up interest in it and those rich kids can buy it the lazy way.

Ik... if your idea was easier to implement it would suit perfectly all of the demands, the problem is its application, which would probably be very hard I guess.