Another battles question

What if there are 3 or 4 groups attacking?
As far as I know, when there more than 2 groups, groups attack and defend at same time. How does this EXACTLY work? Thanks.

[EDIT]
I've often wondered the same thing, and until someone comes in with an authoritative answer, I'll work on answering this question empirically.

Hypothesis:
- Battles where more than two parties are involved apply the same battle mechanics as classical 1v1. If one of the parties is in a city, they will always be defending, and if three parties attack each other, they will take turns attacking and defending, as 'classical' battle mechanics dictates.

Test 1:
- Find another player. Decide who will be player A and Player B.
- Make sure that Player A attacks the Neutral City as their first move.
- Make sure that Player B attacks the Neutral City as their last move.
- Watch the battle results carefully.
- Record battle order,
- Perform the same test at least seven times to ensure randomness isn't the issue (< .5%)

Test 2:
- Find 2 other players. A, B, C
- A, B, C bring bombers very close together (less than 5 range from each other: the radius of infantry movement)
- Player A attacks B as their first move.
- Player B attacks Player C as their first move.
- Player C attacks Player A as their first move.
- Watch the battle results carefully.
- Record battle order.
- Perform the same test at least seven times to ensure randomness isn't the issue (< .5%), though I believe that randomness will be an issue.

[EDIT] Preliminary Findings:

Test 1 [Prelim]
- Player RUST (thanks RUST) voulnteered to assist me in the experiment.
- He chose UK, I chose Spain. From London, first move in the turn he attacked Paris with 8 bombers. From Madrid, 5th move in the turn I attacked Paris with 8 bombers. We were both attackers, Paris was the defender.
- Paris/Neutral was the winner with 2 infantry remaining.
- Move priority in this case did not change who was attacker/defender (facepalm) because 'city' is ALWAYS defender.
- Still Unanswered: Who attacked/defended whom in what order, and why? We know that attacking and defending occur simultaneously, both RUST and I were both labeled as Attacker, Neutral as Defender.

If you have Premium Alex, feel free to create a casual game with a private password and message me to join.

Kirjoittanut zombieyeti, 03.02.2014 at 07:33

Thanks for trying to help, though I would like to hear an exact answer
From what I read before long time ago in another post, is that attacking groups also defend.

<random spam>

Hue

Kirjoittanut hdrakon, 03.02.2014 at 11:17

What is the point of this thread?

I want to know how battles work, I'm making a calculator.
Also, what is the point of this message if you ignored me? ;_;

Kirjoittanut Guest, 03.02.2014 at 09:27

Kirjoittanut zombieyeti, 03.02.2014 at 07:33

Thanks for trying to help, though I would like to hear an exact answer
From what I read before long time ago in another post, is that attacking groups also defend.

Nothing beats an exact answer for sure. I'm offering the findings that I have until an 'authority' provides and answer, and that answer is reproduced through experiment and observation.

Kirjoittanut hdrakon, 03.02.2014 at 11:17

What is the point of this thread?

I'm not the OP, but clearly the 'point' is how to calculate the potential result of a battle when more than two parties fight.
Two obvious examples come to mind: When 2 players attack a neutral city, or when 3+ players attack each other.

I called tophats but no answer ;_; We're fucked.
I'll bump this a lot.

Kirjoittanut Guest, 03.02.2014 at 15:38

I called tophats but no answer ;_; We're fucked.
I'll bump this a lot.

If you have premium, set up a casual 48h/50k world game, invite me (or someone else). Two can easily test to see the results of attacking a third (neutral) in a city, and three (A attacks B, B attacks C, C attacks A) can test for the multi-player.
<bump>

Kirjoittanut zombieyeti, 03.02.2014 at 19:11

Kirjoittanut Guest, 03.02.2014 at 15:38

I called tophats but no answer ;_; We're fucked.
I'll bump this a lot.

If you have premium, set up a casual 48h/50k world game, invite me (or someone else). Two can easily test to see the results of attacking a third (neutral) in a city, and three (A attacks B, B attacks C, C attacks A) can test for the multi-player.
<bump>

Hmm, maybe but exact rolls etc do not display in battle. We wouldn't find out know it exactly works watching it.
Too bad admins are not in AW anymore to answer questions I miss them.

Kirjoittanut Guest, 02.02.2014 at 19:13

What if there are 3 or 4 groups attacking?
As far as I know, when there more than 2 groups, groups attack and defend at same time. How does this EXACTLY work? Thanks.

Group 1, 2, 3 & etc. take turns attacking. Who they attack is determined randomly. So 1 attacking stack can end up attacking another attacking stack. When defending, the stack will defend with its best defensive unit.

I forget where I read this, but I'm fairly sure it's the correct answer.

Kirjoittanut Grimm, 04.02.2014 at 11:04

Kirjoittanut Guest, 02.02.2014 at 19:13

What if there are 3 or 4 groups attacking?
As far as I know, when there more than 2 groups, groups attack and defend at same time. How does this EXACTLY work? Thanks.

Group 1, 2, 3 & etc. take turns attacking. Who they attack is determined randomly. So 1 attacking stack can end up attacking another attacking stack. When defending, the stack will defend with its best defensive unit.

I forget where I read this, but I'm fairly sure it's the correct answer.

Can you give an example? Do attacking stacks also defend?

Kirjoittanut Grimm, 04.02.2014 at 11:04

Kirjoittanut Guest, 02.02.2014 at 19:13

What if there are 3 or 4 groups attacking?
As far as I know, when there more than 2 groups, groups attack and defend at same time. How does this EXACTLY work? Thanks.

Group 1, 2, 3 & etc. take turns attacking. Who they attack is determined randomly. So 1 attacking stack can end up attacking another attacking stack. When defending, the stack will defend with its best defensive unit.

I forget where I read this, but I'm fairly sure it's the correct answer.

Without being an Admin, or quoting sauce, that's pretty darn good, makes sense, and I have no experience to the contrary.
It best explains why 2 player SMs with 8 bombers attacking a Neutral city frequently both lose, but the Infantry lives.

Thank you!

Kirjoittanut zombieyeti, 04.02.2014 at 12:16

Kirjoittanut Grimm, 04.02.2014 at 11:04

Kirjoittanut Guest, 02.02.2014 at 19:13

What if there are 3 or 4 groups attacking?
As far as I know, when there more than 2 groups, groups attack and defend at same time. How does this EXACTLY work? Thanks.

Group 1, 2, 3 & etc. take turns attacking. Who they attack is determined randomly. So 1 attacking stack can end up attacking another attacking stack. When defending, the stack will defend with its best defensive unit.

I forget where I read this, but I'm fairly sure it's the correct answer.

Without being an Admin, or quoting sauce, that's pretty darn good, makes sense, and I have no experience to the contrary.
It best explains why 2 player SMs with 8 bombers attacking a Neutral city frequently both lose, but the Infantry lives.

Thank you!

Yes, attacking stacks do attack each other, but, I'm not sure if they do defend or not. And how do they exactly work, so I can code it into batch. For 1v1 Groups, I just do CurrentHp - EnemyRoll, if CurrentHP goes to 0 or less, then I send the remaining power of the roll to the next unit.
If it works like how you said, and attacking stacks defend, this is why PD UK Rush always beats spain rush.

Kirjoittanut Guest, 04.02.2014 at 13:07

Kirjoittanut zombieyeti, 04.02.2014 at 12:16

Kirjoittanut Grimm, 04.02.2014 at 11:04

Kirjoittanut Guest, 02.02.2014 at 19:13

What if there are 3 or 4 groups attacking?
As far as I know, when there more than 2 groups, groups attack and defend at same time. How does this EXACTLY work? Thanks.

Group 1, 2, 3 & etc. take turns attacking. Who they attack is determined randomly. So 1 attacking stack can end up attacking another attacking stack. When defending, the stack will defend with its best defensive unit.

I forget where I read this, but I'm fairly sure it's the correct answer.

Without being an Admin, or quoting sauce, that's pretty darn good, makes sense, and I have no experience to the contrary.
It best explains why 2 player SMs with 8 bombers attacking a Neutral city frequently both lose, but the Infantry lives.

Thank you!

Yes, attacking stacks do attack each other, but, I'm not sure if they do defend or not. And how do they exactly work, so I can code it into batch. For 1v1 Groups, I just do CurrentHp - EnemyRoll, if CurrentHP goes to 0 or less, then I send the remaining power of the roll to the next unit.
If it works like how you said, and attacking stacks defend, this is why PD UK Rush always beats spain rush.

He's speaking to your OP about when 3 or more sides battle.
---
Question: Does the remaining power/damage go to the next unit, or is that expended/lost/wasted? I know HP carries over into the next skirmish, but IDK about damage.
EDIT: http://atwar-game.com/events/news.php?user_id=&n_priority=&n_where=&n_what=&page=7 According to the v0.98 Release notes, damage INDEED does transfer to the next unit. What I don't know is if that is still the case.
I'll proceed as if it were.

Kirjoittanut zombieyeti, 04.02.2014 at 13:12

Kirjoittanut Guest, 04.02.2014 at 13:07

Kirjoittanut zombieyeti, 04.02.2014 at 12:16

Kirjoittanut Grimm, 04.02.2014 at 11:04

Kirjoittanut Guest, 02.02.2014 at 19:13

What if there are 3 or 4 groups attacking?
As far as I know, when there more than 2 groups, groups attack and defend at same time. How does this EXACTLY work? Thanks.

Group 1, 2, 3 & etc. take turns attacking. Who they attack is determined randomly. So 1 attacking stack can end up attacking another attacking stack. When defending, the stack will defend with its best defensive unit.

I forget where I read this, but I'm fairly sure it's the correct answer.

Without being an Admin, or quoting sauce, that's pretty darn good, makes sense, and I have no experience to the contrary.
It best explains why 2 player SMs with 8 bombers attacking a Neutral city frequently both lose, but the Infantry lives.

Thank you!

Yes, attacking stacks do attack each other, but, I'm not sure if they do defend or not. And how do they exactly work, so I can code it into batch. For 1v1 Groups, I just do CurrentHp - EnemyRoll, if CurrentHP goes to 0 or less, then I send the remaining power of the roll to the next unit.
If it works like how you said, and attacking stacks defend, this is why PD UK Rush always beats spain rush.

He's speaking to your OP about when 3 or more sides battle.
---
Question: Does the remaining power/damage go to the next unit, or is that expended/lost/wasted? I know HP carries over into the next skirmish, but IDK about damage.

I saw the quote, but not the reply. In any case, let's assume damage by UNIT A1 destroys UNIT B1, and carries on to UNIT B2. Does the damage done to UNIT B2 HP substitute for the next round of damage UNIT A1 would do, or does it reduce the HP of UNIT B2 before the skirmish even begins?
I will assume that the damage done by UNIT A1 to UNIT B1 that carries on to UNIT B2 reduces UNIT B2s HP before UNIT A1 and UNIT B2 begin their skirmish, unless someone tells me otherwise.

Kirjoittanut Guest, 04.02.2014 at 13:17

Kirjoittanut zombieyeti, 04.02.2014 at 13:12

Kirjoittanut Guest, 04.02.2014 at 13:07

Kirjoittanut zombieyeti, 04.02.2014 at 12:16

Kirjoittanut Grimm, 04.02.2014 at 11:04

Kirjoittanut Guest, 02.02.2014 at 19:13

What if there are 3 or 4 groups attacking?
As far as I know, when there more than 2 groups, groups attack and defend at same time. How does this EXACTLY work? Thanks.

Group 1, 2, 3 & etc. take turns attacking. Who they attack is determined randomly. So 1 attacking stack can end up attacking another attacking stack. When defending, the stack will defend with its best defensive unit.

I forget where I read this, but I'm fairly sure it's the correct answer.

Without being an Admin, or quoting sauce, that's pretty darn good, makes sense, and I have no experience to the contrary.
It best explains why 2 player SMs with 8 bombers attacking a Neutral city frequently both lose, but the Infantry lives.

Thank you!

Yes, attacking stacks do attack each other, but, I'm not sure if they do defend or not. And how do they exactly work, so I can code it into batch. For 1v1 Groups, I just do CurrentHp - EnemyRoll, if CurrentHP goes to 0 or less, then I send the remaining power of the roll to the next unit.
If it works like how you said, and attacking stacks defend, this is why PD UK Rush always beats spain rush.

He's speaking to your OP about when 3 or more sides battle.
---
Question: Does the remaining power/damage go to the next unit, or is that expended/lost/wasted? I know HP carries over into the next skirmish, but IDK about damage.

Kirjoittanut zombieyeti, 04.02.2014 at 14:36

I saw the quote, but not the reply. In any case, let's assume damage by UNIT A1 destroys UNIT B1, and carries on to UNIT B2. Does the damage done to UNIT B2 HP substitute for the next round of damage UNIT A1 would do, or does it reduce the HP of UNIT B2 before the skirmish even begins?
I will assume that the damage done by UNIT A1 to UNIT B1 that carries on to UNIT B2 reduces UNIT B2s HP before UNIT A1 and UNIT B2 begin their skirmish, unless someone tells me otherwise.

Kirjoittanut Guest, 04.02.2014 at 13:17

Kirjoittanut zombieyeti, 04.02.2014 at 13:12

Kirjoittanut Guest, 04.02.2014 at 13:07

Kirjoittanut zombieyeti, 04.02.2014 at 12:16

Kirjoittanut Grimm, 04.02.2014 at 11:04

Kirjoittanut Guest, 02.02.2014 at 19:13

What if there are 3 or 4 groups attacking?
As far as I know, when there more than 2 groups, groups attack and defend at same time. How does this EXACTLY work? Thanks.

Group 1, 2, 3 & etc. take turns attacking. Who they attack is determined randomly. So 1 attacking stack can end up attacking another attacking stack. When defending, the stack will defend with its best defensive unit.

I forget where I read this, but I'm fairly sure it's the correct answer.

Without being an Admin, or quoting sauce, that's pretty darn good, makes sense, and I have no experience to the contrary.
It best explains why 2 player SMs with 8 bombers attacking a Neutral city frequently both lose, but the Infantry lives.

Thank you!

Yes, attacking stacks do attack each other, but, I'm not sure if they do defend or not. And how do they exactly work, so I can code it into batch. For 1v1 Groups, I just do CurrentHp - EnemyRoll, if CurrentHP goes to 0 or less, then I send the remaining power of the roll to the next unit.
If it works like how you said, and attacking stacks defend, this is why PD UK Rush always beats spain rush.

He's speaking to your OP about when 3 or more sides battle.
---
Question: Does the remaining power/damage go to the next unit, or is that expended/lost/wasted? I know HP carries over into the next skirmish, but IDK about damage.

LOL. Meh, my internet was bitching before, sorry.
And yes, it still works like that, I'm pretty sure it does. 98%

As of this new question,
Yes, it works like that. Fe; 2 tanks vs 2 infs, tanks 8 att, infs 6 def
2(1)1(6)
1(2)0(0)
As you can see, in the first 2(1)1(6) one, the tank kills the whole inf (7 HP) and the remaining damage (1) transfer to the next unit. After that, rolls are made again.

TY. I have edited my 'Confidence' thread to inform readers that the results are obsolete whilst I update my Battle Simulator.

Kirjoittanut Guest, 04.02.2014 at 14:42

Kirjoittanut zombieyeti, 04.02.2014 at 14:36

I saw the quote, but not the reply. In any case, let's assume damage by UNIT A1 destroys UNIT B1, and carries on to UNIT B2. Does the damage done to UNIT B2 HP substitute for the next round of damage UNIT A1 would do, or does it reduce the HP of UNIT B2 before the skirmish even begins?
I will assume that the damage done by UNIT A1 to UNIT B1 that carries on to UNIT B2 reduces UNIT B2s HP before UNIT A1 and UNIT B2 begin their skirmish, unless someone tells me otherwise.

Kirjoittanut Guest, 04.02.2014 at 13:17

Kirjoittanut zombieyeti, 04.02.2014 at 13:12

Kirjoittanut Guest, 04.02.2014 at 13:07

Kirjoittanut zombieyeti, 04.02.2014 at 12:16

Kirjoittanut Grimm, 04.02.2014 at 11:04

Kirjoittanut Guest, 02.02.2014 at 19:13

What if there are 3 or 4 groups attacking?
As far as I know, when there more than 2 groups, groups attack and defend at same time. How does this EXACTLY work? Thanks.

Group 1, 2, 3 & etc. take turns attacking. Who they attack is determined randomly. So 1 attacking stack can end up attacking another attacking stack. When defending, the stack will defend with its best defensive unit.

I forget where I read this, but I'm fairly sure it's the correct answer.

Without being an Admin, or quoting sauce, that's pretty darn good, makes sense, and I have no experience to the contrary.
It best explains why 2 player SMs with 8 bombers attacking a Neutral city frequently both lose, but the Infantry lives.

Thank you!

Yes, attacking stacks do attack each other, but, I'm not sure if they do defend or not. And how do they exactly work, so I can code it into batch. For 1v1 Groups, I just do CurrentHp - EnemyRoll, if CurrentHP goes to 0 or less, then I send the remaining power of the roll to the next unit.
If it works like how you said, and attacking stacks defend, this is why PD UK Rush always beats spain rush.

He's speaking to your OP about when 3 or more sides battle.
---
Question: Does the remaining power/damage go to the next unit, or is that expended/lost/wasted? I know HP carries over into the next skirmish, but IDK about damage.

LOL. Meh, my internet was bitching before, sorry.
And yes, it still works like that, I'm pretty sure it does. 98%

As of this new question,
Yes, it works like that. Fe; 2 tanks vs 2 infs, tanks 8 att, infs 6 def
2(1)1(6)
1(2)0(0)
As you can see, in the first 2(1)1(6) one, the tank kills the whole inf (7 HP) and the remaining damage (1) transfer to the next unit. After that, rolls are made again.

Kirjoittanut Guest, 04.02.2014 at 11:20

Kirjoittanut Grimm, 04.02.2014 at 11:04

Group 1, 2, 3 & etc. take turns attacking. Who they attack is determined randomly. So 1 attacking stack can end up attacking another attacking stack. When defending, the stack will defend with its best defensive unit.

I forget where I read this, but I'm fairly sure it's the correct answer.

Can you give an example? Do attacking stacks also defend?

Yeah, sorry. I meant to write, when one of the attacking stacks gets attacked, it is treated as if it were defending (defends with its best defending unit) and deals damage accordingly. Like you mentioned, that might explain why the UK PD rush defeats the spain SM rush @ Paris.

Oh, okay. I'll try to ask an admin to check if it works like this. Thanks.
ps, spain blitz/lb has a little chance to beat uk
I'll make an example. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Group 1=A, Group 2=N, Group 3=B. N is neutral by the way.
A attacks N, N attacks A, B attacks A. Is that right? Then it repeats again, A attacks x, N attacks x and B attacks x.

But how is it determined, who is Group A and who's B? Random? Group with most units?