How did vietnam war start?

What the USA has to do with vietnam?

And how did the north army get so strong?

Vietnam was colonized by French... republic... after they killed their(french) king who was imperialist.... they started to colonize other countries.

Vietnamese found Communism appealing because it was anti-imperialist and promoted freedom. They organized in the north and funded their brothers and relatives in the south so they can organize and eventually unite. America didn't want that to happen because they wish happiness and prosperity only for American people. They invaded Vietnam, used forbiden weapons of mass destruction, became responsible for 1 million deaths and eventually lost.

If they didn't interfere, South Vietnamese communists would eventually obtain power and unite with North Vietnam, there would be civil war which would last far less and probably 50,000 would die.

Similar had to happen with Korea.

Ok time for real history.
To try and contain Communism and prevent it from taking over other countries in South East Asia, America sent the USS Maddox into the Gulf of Tonkin (North Vietnamese waters) to provoke the North Vietnamese into attacking them. The North did attack, and America entered.
The North Army was not as strong as you would think. America and Capitalist forces were winning initially, but the American people did not want to fight. The two events that caused the most protests were the bombing of Laos and Cambodia, and the Tet Offensive. These two events caused such outrage in America that the government had no choice but to pull out.

Kirjoittanut Nero, 03.11.2015 at 16:55

Ok time for real history.
To try and contain Communism and prevent it from taking over other countries in South East Asia, America sent the USS Maddox into the Gulf of Tonkin (North Vietnamese waters) to provoke the North Vietnamese into attacking them. The North did attack, and America entered.
The North Army was not as strong as you would think. America and Capitalist forces were winning initially, but the American people did not want to fight. The two events that caused the most protests were the bombing of Laos and Cambodia, and the Tet Offensive. These two events caused such outrage in America that the government had no choice but to pull out.

i watched three days ago the movie full metal jacket, man the first half hour is the funniest thing that ever been on tv and cinema, too bad they pulled it later into a dramatic movie, i hate those, drama is no longer dramatic on movies and tv, just nerving.

Kirjoittanut Skanderbeg, 03.11.2015 at 16:33

Vietnam was colonized by French... republic... after they killed their(french) king who was imperialist.... they started to colonize other countries.

Vietnamese found Communism appealing because it was anti-imperialist and promoted freedom. They organized in the north and funded their brothers and relatives in the south so they can organize and eventually unite. America didn't want that to happen because they wish happiness and prosperity only for American people. They invaded Vietnam, used forbiden weapons of mass destruction, became responsible for 1 million deaths and eventually lost.

If they didn't interfere, South Vietnamese communists would eventually obtain power and unite with North Vietnam, there would be civil war which would last far less and probably 50,000 would die.

Similar had to happen with Korea.

Kirjoittanut Skanderbeg, 03.11.2015 at 16:33

eventually lost.

or the loud whiny liberal populations crying combined with the fact that Vietnam wasn't worth sending people to die over just caused the government to stop caring

Kirjoittanut Rock Lee, 03.11.2015 at 19:16

I don't know what is there to convince you about. History is history and it is learned same all around the world.

Kirjoittanut Skanderbeg, 04.11.2015 at 09:29

I don't know what is there to convince you about. History is history and it is learned same all around the world.

nah, history is, opposed to the natural siences and math something nobody can prove and something that never is clear and something that always will be debated

Kirjoittanut Skanderbeg, 03.11.2015 at 16:33

Vietnam was colonized by French... republic... after they killed their(french) king who was imperialist.... they started to colonize other countries.

Vietnamese found Communism appealing because it was anti-imperialist and promoted freedom. They organized in the north and funded their brothers and relatives in the south so they can organize and eventually unite. America didn't want that to happen because they wish happiness and prosperity only for American people. They invaded Vietnam, used forbiden weapons of mass destruction, became responsible for 1 million deaths and eventually lost.

If they didn't interfere, South Vietnamese communists would eventually obtain power and unite with North Vietnam, there would be civil war which would last far less and probably 50,000 would die.

Similar had to happen with Korea.

i'm Vietnamese and the bullshit is high with this one.

In summary, USA was afraid that communism will rise in south east Asia, and has sent ships to Gulf of Tonkin to agitate North Vietnam to attack its ships, so USA can have a justification for war declartion. During the war the United States has used many types of bombs, and weapons including illegal ones, and as well attacked Laos, and Cambodia, because they thought Viet Cong were hiding there. And it's a fact that the amount of bombs that USA throw at these three states is three times bigger than all the bombs that were thrown in WW2.

"VIETNAM WAR: U.S. INTERVENTION BEGINS
With the Cold War intensifying, the United States hardened its policies against any allies of the Soviet Union,
and by 1955 President Dwight D. Eisenhower had pledged his firm support to Diem and South Vietnam.
With training and equipment from American military and police, Diem's security forces cracked down on Viet Minh sympathizers in the south,
whom he derisively called Viet Cong (or Vietnamese Communist), arresting some 100,000 people, many of whom were tortured and executed.
By 1957, the Viet Cong and other opponents of Diem's repressive regime began fighting back with attacks on government officials and other targets,
and by 1959 they had begun engaging South Vietnamese Army forces in firefights.

In December 1960, Diem's opponents within South Vietnam-both communist and non-communist-formed the National Liberation Front (NLF) to organize resistance to the regime.
Though the NLF claimed to be autonomous and that most of its members were non-Communist, many in Washington assumed it was a puppet of Hanoi.
A team sent by President John F. Kennedy in 1961 to report on conditions in South Vietnam advised a build-up of American military, economic and technical aid in order to help confront the Viet Cong threat.
Working under the "domino theory," which held that if one Southeast Asian country fell to communism, many would follow, Kennedy increased U.S. aid, though he stopped short of committing to a large-scale military intervention.
By 1962, the U.S. military presence in South Vietnam had reached some 9,000 troops, compared with fewer than 800 during the 1950s.

VIETNAM WAR ESCALATES
A coup by some of his own generals succeeded in toppling and killing Diem and his brother, Ngo Dinh Nhu, in November 1963, three weeks before Kennedy was assassinated in Dallas, Texas.
The ensuing political instability in South Vietnam persuaded Kennedy's successor, Lyndon B. Johnson, and Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara to further increase U.S. military and economic support.
The following August, after DRV torpedo boats attacked two U.S. destroyers in the Gulf of Tonkin, Johnson ordered the retaliatory bombing of military targets in North Vietnam.
Congress soon passed the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, which gave Johnson broad war-making powers, and U.S. planes began regular bombing raids, codenamed Operation Rolling Thunder, the following February."
link


" 'The United States Air Force dropped in Indochina, from 1964 to August 15, 1973, a total of
6,162,000 tons of bombs and other ordnance. U.S. Navy and Marine Corps aircraft expended
another 1,500,000 tons in Southeast Asia. This tonnage far exceeded that expended in World
War II and in the Korean War. The U.S. Air Force consumed 2,150,000 tons of munitions in
World War II - 1,613,000 tons in the European Theater and 537,000 tons in the Pacific
Theater - and 454,000 tons in the Korean War.'

Vietnam War bombing thus represented at least three times as much (by weight) as both European
and Pacific theater World War II bombing combined, and about fifteen times total tonnage in the
Korean War. Given the prewar Vietnamese population of 32 million, U.S. bombing translates into
hundreds of kilograms of explosives per capita, more than the entire weight of the Vietnamese
nation. For another comparison, the atomic bombs dropped at Hiroshima and Nagasaki had the
power of roughly 15,000 and 20,000 tons of TNT, respectively (Grolier 1995). Since general purpose
bombs - by far the most common type of bomb used in Vietnam - are approximately 50% explosive
material by weight, each atomic bomb translates into roughly 30,000 to 40,000 tons of such
munitions. Measured this way, U.S. bombing in Indochina represents roughly 100 times the
combined impact of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki atomic bombs."
link

Kirjoittanut Meester, 04.11.2015 at 09:59

Kirjoittanut Skanderbeg, 03.11.2015 at 16:33

Vietnam was colonized by French... republic... after they killed their(french) king who was imperialist.... they started to colonize other countries.

Vietnamese found Communism appealing because it was anti-imperialist and promoted freedom. They organized in the north and funded their brothers and relatives in the south so they can organize and eventually unite. America didn't want that to happen because they wish happiness and prosperity only for American people. They invaded Vietnam, used forbiden weapons of mass destruction, became responsible for 1 million deaths and eventually lost.

If they didn't interfere, South Vietnamese communists would eventually obtain power and unite with North Vietnam, there would be civil war which would last far less and probably 50,000 would die.

Similar had to happen with Korea.

i'm Vietnamese and the bullshit is high with this one.

You are dissident, so i don't believe you can give us objective logical opinion.

If you think you can - please go word by word and reply to me why is 'bullsh*t high with this one'.

Tonkin was a false flag.

Kirjoittanut Skanderbeg, 05.11.2015 at 13:00

You are dissident, so i don't believe you can give us objective logical opinion.

If you think you can - please go word by word and reply to me why is 'bullsh*t high with this one'.

I don't know whats more funny, I a Vietnamese can't give a logical opinion about my own countries past or that you can. Considering how Vietnam only teaches local history and not world history I'd say I have a far more vast knowledge about my own countries history that you would.

If you want to know what really happened, Nero's post simplifies it nicely.

Kirjoittanut Meester, 06.11.2015 at 00:04

I don't know whats more funny, I a Vietnamese can't give a logical opinion about my own countries past or that you can. Considering how Vietnam only teaches local history and not world history I'd say I have a far more vast knowledge about my own countries history that you would.

If you want to know what really happened, Nero's post simplifies it nicely.

1. We talk about gepolitics and vietnam, not local culture in central Vietnam. I don't know about townfolks mentality and cultural traditions in vietnamese villages, but i know what happened in American invasion of Vietnam.

2. In thread about driving cars left or right you told you moved from Vietnam (won't say where to), so there is a chance you might be a dissident, atleast 0,01% chance is Which mean you dislike/hate your country and wont hesitate to talk bad or lie about it.

3. No need to use sailors' vocabulary in conversation in forum game Meester. Especially when you are a moderator.

Kirjoittanut Skanderbeg, 06.11.2015 at 06:33

1. We talk about gepolitics and vietnam, not local culture in central Vietnam. I don't know about townfolks mentality and cultural traditions in vietnamese villages, but i know what happened in American invasion of Vietnam.

2. In thread about driving cars left or right you told you moved from Vietnam (won't say where to), so there is a chance you might be a dissident, atleast 0,01% chance is Which mean you dislike/hate your country and wont hesitate to talk bad or lie about it.

3. No need to use sailors' vocabulary in conversation in forum game Meester. Especially when you are a moderator.

1. I said my country teaches local history, this means everything from ancient times all the way to modern times and my countries contribution today. I see no reason for my country's history textbook to lie about its own history to its people especially when we came out victorious. They could have easily instilled hate toward America in a couple of 16 year olds why didn't they? Right because we have no reason to come up with bullshit stories like yourself.

2. Yes I did move from Vietnam where the harm in that. I moved to Japan because of education opportunities. I got a scholarship to study medicine in Japan so I took it. Just because I live in a different country that my home country that means I hate it? In that case since you love kissing Russia's ass so much you must really hate Serbia.

3. Get a dictionary.

That moment when Tito argues with a Vietnamese person about what happened in Vietnam

Kirjoittanut Viruslegion, 06.11.2015 at 11:17

That moment when Tito argues with a Vietnamese person about what happened in Vietnam

He does it with Croatians and Americans all the time

In the day tito desides to leave people will cry, right now they don't understand what kind of legend is he

Kirjoittanut Nero, 06.11.2015 at 11:30

Kirjoittanut Viruslegion, 06.11.2015 at 11:17

That moment when Tito argues with a Vietnamese person about what happened in Vietnam

He does it with Croatians and Americans all the time

#StopTito2k15

Kirjoittanut Meester, 06.11.2015 at 07:00

Kirjoittanut Skanderbeg, 06.11.2015 at 06:33

1. We talk about gepolitics and vietnam, not local culture in central Vietnam. I don't know about townfolks mentality and cultural traditions in vietnamese villages, but i know what happened in American invasion of Vietnam.

2. In thread about driving cars left or right you told you moved from Vietnam (won't say where to), so there is a chance you might be a dissident, atleast 0,01% chance is Which mean you dislike/hate your country and wont hesitate to talk bad or lie about it.

3. No need to use sailors' vocabulary in conversation in forum game Meester. Especially when you are a moderator.

1. I said my country teaches local history, this means everything from ancient times all the way to modern times and my countries contribution today. I see no reason for my country's history textbook to lie about its own history to its people especially when we came out victorious. They could have easily instilled hate toward America in a couple of 16 year olds why didn't they? Right because we have no reason to come up with bullshit stories like yourself.

2. Yes I did move from Vietnam where the harm in that. I moved to Japan because of education opportunities. I got a scholarship to study medicine in Japan so I took it. Just because I live in a different country that my home country that means I hate it? In that case since you love kissing Russia's ass so much you must really hate Serbia.

3. Get a dictionary.

vietnam is devloped country nowdays?

Kirjoittanut Meester, 06.11.2015 at 07:00

1. I said my country teaches local history, this means everything from ancient times all the way to modern times and my countries contribution today. I see no reason for my country's history textbook to lie about its own history to its people especially when we came out victorious. They could have easily instilled hate toward America in a couple of 16 year olds why didn't they? Right because we have no reason to come up with bullshit stories like yourself.

2. Yes I did move from Vietnam where the harm in that. I moved to Japan because of education opportunities. I got a scholarship to study medicine in Japan so I took it. Just because I live in a different country that my home country that means I hate it? In that case since you love kissing Russia's ass so much you must really hate Serbia.

3. Get a dictionary.

I don't need a dictionary, i understand your english. I don't understand meaning and point of it.


Since you didn't answered and replied me and just used denial, let me write questions extracted from me first post:

Was France republic when it occupied Vietnam?
Did France killed its king because of monarchism and imperialism and so they can bring freedom, liberalism and republicanism?
Was Vietnam sovereign before French invasion?
Did north vietnamese embraced communism to fight French imperialism and later American imperialism?
Did north vietnamese supported and funded south vietnamese fighters during Vietnam War?
Why America traveled 15,000km far away from its homeland and lost 50,000 lives?
Did Vietnam threatened America?
Did more than a million Vietnamese people died in the war?
If America didn't interfere, would Vietnam unite faster and easier?
Would unification of Vietnam bring less death if America didn't interfere?
Was American pattern same in Vietnam War as in Korean War?


Let's see what will you reply.



p.s.
i don't remember Meester using bad language like he use now, something changed.

Kirjoittanut Rock Lee, 06.11.2015 at 12:22

vietnam is devloped country nowdays?

It is far better now compared to then however it is still not a modern country, education is severely lacking in Vietnam and child labour is wide spread, all thanks to a couple of corrupt foreign cooperation.

Kirjoittanut Skanderbeg, 06.11.2015 at 13:04

Since you didn't answered and replied me and just used denial, let me write questions extracted from me first post:

Was France republic when it occupied Vietnam?
Did France killed its king because of monarchism and imperialism and so they can bring freedom, liberalism and republicanism?
Was Vietnam sovereign before French invasion?
Did north vietnamese embraced communism to fight French imperialism and later American imperialism?
Did north vietnamese supported and funded south vietnamese fighters during Vietnam War?
Why America traveled 15,000km far away from its homeland and lost 50,000 lives?
Did Vietnam threatened America?
Did more than a million Vietnamese people died in the war?
If America didn't interfere, would Vietnam unite faster and easier?
Would unification of Vietnam bring less death if America didn't interfere?
Was American pattern same in Vietnam War as in Korean War?

1. Yes how do this even matter
2. France killed its king to bring freedom, liberalism and republicanism to its own country, not its colonial possessions in the future. France become a imperialist power the moment it joined the UK in the colonial race and the scramble for Africa. If you are asking if France wanted to bring "freedom, liberalism and republicanism" to Vietnam than no they brought imperialism.
3. Yes and no, Vietnam was governed most by Chinese Governor from mainland China who were loyal to China but eventually blended into Vietnamese society.
4. Yes and no, North Vietnamese communist were funded and trained by Americans during WW2 to fight against the Japanese. After the Japanese surrendered the Americans offered Indochina to the Chinese to which they said yes. After conflict about Indochina between China and France, France surrendered all their colonies in China in exchange for Indochina. However by this time the North Vietnamese Communist had already declared independence. The France refused to accept this and fought to take back whole of Vietnam. They lost and left Indochina which caused all other countries to declare independence. Now there was a communist north Vietnam and a democratic south Vietnam. Americans backed the south due to their democratic nature. After they proved the attack on their ships in the Gulf of Tonkin America got involved. After outrage from their citizens they left.
5. No they sent their own north Vietnamese into south Vietnam to infiltrate their government and if all else fail to help take it down from the inside during the war.
6. Simple they backed the south Vietnamese who were democratic they believed if Vietnam fell to communism all other countries in south east asia will too.
7. No
8. Yes
9. We cant tell for sure if it was by war then yes if by diplomacy no
10. Maybe? America was sending weapon aid to south Vietnam under lend lease anyway
11. No. In the Vietnam war North Vietnam did not attack South Vietnam first, both countries were at peace tho tensions were rising.

Kirjoittanut Meester, 06.11.2015 at 21:39

1. Yes how do this even matter

Because french king was absolutist ruler while republicanism mean rule of the people (latin: res publica). Which mean french people wanted to have colonies and invade other sovereign independent countries - like Vietnam. Therefore it wasn't one frenchmen responsible for occupation of Vietnam, but all people according to system they chose when they made coup and killed the king.

That is why it matters.

Kirjoittanut Meester, 06.11.2015 at 21:39

Americans backed the south due to their democratic nature.

Maybe that was their excuse for involvement in war, as other side (communist north) was also democratic. Communism = community so it is not different than democracy (greek: demos & kratia = rule of the people). Plus with councils in villages and towns inviting all people in community to participate in discussions it makes it more democratic than western-style democracy which is basically just simple 'representativism'.

Just wanted to reply to these two.

You see you could reply normal without using bad words, it's not that hard.


p.s.
I don't like your middle finger avatar and profile banner 'proud to be *****'. But again, another mod Desu have avatar with words 'you lose', really encouraging and normal thing to see when normal decent atwar player want to PM him(or you) about some issue, help or question.

Communism = Democratic?

Right I'm arguing with a lunatic.

P.S
Its a JPEG picture on the internet grow a pair.

Kirjoittanut Meester, 07.11.2015 at 18:14

Communism = Democratic?

Right I'm arguing with a lunatic.

P.S
Its a JPEG picture on the internet grow a pair.

Sigh no point... you are dissident, can't talk to a guy which lack average knowledge. I'll stick to Learster and Brianwl, it is more interesting to talk with them, you forget the whole thing.

p.s.
now i feel bad for helping you in ww1. Because i'll rather help good person with no mapmaking skill than bad person who mastered mapmaking.

Kirjoittanut Meester, 07.11.2015 at 18:14

Its a JPEG picture on the internet grow a pair.

Alright then - there are Westerners talking about second invasion of Vietnam on the internet. So let's use biological and chemical weapon again (because internet is legit for you right), you grow a pair and don't complain.

Oh wait i forgot - you emigrated. So i guess you wouldn't care if war start again.