Gorbachev turn 85

Mikhail Gorbachev turned 85 few days ago, it was in the news so that got me thinking; opinions are divided about him in society, what you think about him? Was he good, bad, incapable, cunning, did he do what he wanted with a plan to look like a failure maybe?

He ruined the foundations on what the USSR was built id label him traitor

Kirjoittanut Columna Durruti, 05.03.2016 at 08:10

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Time for columna's explanation about Gorbachev

"I had a dreamsky."

Kirjoittanut Columna Durruti, 05.03.2016 at 08:37

"I had a dreamsky."

Not sure if i understand, you mean this?:

Great Gorbachev video, skip to 10 seconds

Kirjoittanut Skanderbeg, 05.03.2016 at 11:44

Not sure if i understand, you mean this?:

Some call it freedom. Heh...

Kirjoittanut Columna Durruti, 05.03.2016 at 13:14

Some call it freedom. Heh...

Maybe he wanted to copy Deng Xiaoping?

I do not like Gorbachev. He was a democratic socialist and I am totally anti-socialist. He reminds me of Bernie Sanders in the United States. The good thing Gorbachev did was abandoning the Communist Party, which led to the fall of the USSR and the return of conservatism to Russia. Russia is now led by Vladimir Putin, who is like the Tsars of old.

Obviously he was not a traitor. Gorbachev situation is a classic example of how miserable, ungratefull and failed species, human beings are. He gave political and economical freedoms and tried to save the union. Did he succeed? No. Does that make him a traitor? No, it makes him human.

Also, before glorifying Xiaoping just because his economic policies worked, keep in mind China didnt do much political and social reforms, its 2016 and still doesnt even have freedom of speech.

Kirjoittanut Khal.eesi, 06.03.2016 at 07:51

Obviously he was not a traitor. Gorbachev situation is a classic example of how miserable, ungratefull and failed species, human beings are. He gave political and economical freedoms and tried to save the union. Did he succeed? No. Does that make him a traitor? No, it makes him human.

Thank you for your explanation (and Ghost's Face and Joseph1).

Kirjoittanut Khal.eesi, 06.03.2016 at 07:51

Also, before glorifying Xiaoping just because his economic policies worked, keep in mind China didnt do much political and social reforms, its 2016 and still doesnt even have freedom of speech.

So Chinese can't sit in the park and chat about daily life? Are their parks, flats and cars bugged?

Kirjoittanut Skanderbeg, 06.03.2016 at 13:00

Kirjoittanut Khal.eesi, 06.03.2016 at 07:51

Obviously he was not a traitor. Gorbachev situation is a classic example of how miserable, ungratefull and failed species, human beings are. He gave political and economical freedoms and tried to save the union. Did he succeed? No. Does that make him a traitor? No, it makes him human.

Thank you for your explanation (and Ghost's Face and Joseph1).

Kirjoittanut Khal.eesi, 06.03.2016 at 07:51

Also, before glorifying Xiaoping just because his economic policies worked, keep in mind China didnt do much political and social reforms, its 2016 and still doesnt even have freedom of speech.

So Chinese can't sit in the park and chat about daily life? Are their parks, flats and cars bugged?

No but neither are they allowed to criticize the Government, hold large protests against government decisions etc. Hell, Google is banned there.

Kirjoittanut Skanderbeg, 06.03.2016 at 13:00

Kirjoittanut Khal.eesi, 06.03.2016 at 07:51

Obviously he was not a traitor. Gorbachev situation is a classic example of how miserable, ungratefull and failed species, human beings are. He gave political and economical freedoms and tried to save the union. Did he succeed? No. Does that make him a traitor? No, it makes him human.

Thank you for your explanation (and Ghost's Face and Joseph1).

Kirjoittanut Khal.eesi, 06.03.2016 at 07:51

Also, before glorifying Xiaoping just because his economic policies worked, keep in mind China didnt do much political and social reforms, its 2016 and still doesnt even have freedom of speech.

So Chinese can't sit in the park and chat about daily life? Are their parks, flats and cars bugged?

In China, people have to be very careful about the three T's:

Taiwan
Tibet
Tiananmen Square

Lol. Also I, J, U and S
India
Japan
USA
And South China Sea

Kirjoittanut Darth., 06.03.2016 at 13:05

No but neither are they allowed to criticize the Government, hold large protests against government decisions etc. Hell, Google is banned there.

So they can sit in a park chatting, in a caffe, restaurant, barber shop, in their home, invite neighbors and get drunk, singing. They can talk about 1001 things, but only because they are banned 2 things (criticize government and hold protest) that mean they don't have freedom of speech? Is that mathematic formula 'plus and minus equals minus'?

Google is a private company as i know, it isn't politicized. China have Bing, so maybe they banned Google because of competiiton, that's allowed in economy right? I mean, USA and Europe ban arms sales from China and some of the commodities.

By your logic, Norway must be 1# oppressive totalitarian dictatorship, because they ban aproximately 30% of stuff to import. Norway ban and/or raise tariffs/regulations to stuff they already produce, that way they save jobs. No need to import something you already produce. You should import only things you can't produce, in the Norway's case that would be olive oil(Greece), fruit(Africa), cocoa(Cote D'ivore), coffee(Brazil). Does that mean Norway is closed country, international pariah, rogue UN nation?


I'm just asking questions, not judging or criticizing!

Kirjoittanut Skanderbeg, 07.03.2016 at 07:39

So they can sit in a park chatting, in a caffe, restaurant, barber shop, in their home, invite neighbors and get drunk, singing. They can talk about 1001 things, but only because they are banned 2 things (criticize government and hold protest) that mean they don't have freedom of speech? Is that mathematic formula 'plus and minus equals minus'?

yes, you dont even need to ban 2 things to violate the freedom of speech 1 is plenty enough, because being allowed to talk about anything at any time in most places is what defines freedom of speech

Kirjoittanut Skanderbeg, 07.03.2016 at 07:39

Kirjoittanut Darth., 06.03.2016 at 13:05

No but neither are they allowed to criticize the Government, hold large protests against government decisions etc. Hell, Google is banned there.

So they can sit in a park chatting, in a caffe, restaurant, barber shop, in their home, invite neighbors and get drunk, singing. They can talk about 1001 things, but only because they are banned 2 things (criticize government and hold protest) that mean they don't have freedom of speech? Is that mathematic formula 'plus and minus equals minus'?

Google is a private company as i know, it isn't politicized. China have Bing, so maybe they banned Google because of competiiton, that's allowed in economy right? I mean, USA and Europe ban arms sales from China and some of the commodities.

By your logic, Norway must be 1# oppressive totalitarian dictatorship, because they ban aproximately 30% of stuff to import. Norway ban and/or raise tariffs/regulations to stuff they already produce, that way they save jobs. No need to import something you already produce. You should import only things you can't produce, in the Norway's case that would be olive oil(Greece), fruit(Africa), cocoa(Cote D'ivore), coffee(Brazil). Does that mean Norway is closed country, international pariah, rogue UN nation?


I'm just asking questions, not judging or criticizing!

Dude...'Freedom of speech is the concept of the inherent human right to voice one's opinion publicly without fear of censorship or punishment.' which one cannot do in China.
[Definition from Wikipedia]
Google is banned because it is regarded as spreading western propaganda by the Chinese government.
US bans arms sales from China because Chinese tech is knockoffs of Western tech (hacking of military databases) and also to prevent the Chinese (generally regarded as closer to Russia than US/not friendly to US interests) getting a foothold in the US military/industrial complex, something no unfriendly foreign country should have.
And as for Norway...seriously?? Where did trade come into this conversation about speech rights? Besides, Norway bans so much because they want to encourage indigenous industries and hold off on globalization before they have achieved near self sufficiency. Many countries do that. China did that till the 80s. India till the 90s and to a lesser extent still does.
Another quote - 'No need to import something you already produce'...are you serious right now?? India became a power surplus country in 2014 meaning they produce more power than they use. Yet 300 million people are without electricity. Why? Because electricity isn't produced where required, it's produced where convenient, near coal mines and oil refineries,in deserts(solar), on rivers, and on mountains (wind) . Actually transferring that electricity to where it is required requires power stations and relays which require money.
Say Mumbai has an electricity shortage and Delhi has electricity surplus. Stretching power lines from Delhi to Mumbai would be expensive and cost more money than building a new power station. So the government has Delhi sell (export) its electricity to Pakistan (closer than Mumbai), raises funds from that sale, to build a new power station in Mumbai, integrates it into an already existing grid, turning Mumbai into a power surplus city or at the very least reducing the deficit on power.
So even though India is power surplus, it is merely using those funds from power exporta to install greater power capacity and upgrade it's electric grid.
This is on a national scale, just expand it to be between countries.
Also, quite a bit of your previous post, and consequently this one, is not relevant to my previous short and sweet post you quoted

Kirjoittanut Darth., 07.03.2016 at 09:05

And as for Norway...seriously?? Where did trade come into this conversation about speech rights? Besides, Norway bans so much because they want to encourage indigenous industries and hold off on globalization before they have achieved near self sufficiency. Many countries do that. China did that till the 80s. India till the 90s and to a lesser extent still does.
Another quote - 'No need to import something you already produce'...are you serious right now?? India became a power surplus country in 2014 meaning they produce more power than they use. Yet 300 million people are without electricity. Why? Because electricity isn't produced where required, it's produced where convenient, near coal mines and oil refineries,in deserts(solar), on rivers, and on mountains (wind) . Actually transferring that electricity to where it is required requires power stations and relays which require money.
Say Mumbai has an electricity shortage and Delhi has electricity surplus. Stretching power lines from Delhi to Mumbai would be expensive and cost more money than building a new power station. So the government has Delhi sell (export) its electricity to Pakistan (closer than Mumbai), raises funds from that sale, to build a new power station in Mumbai, integrates it into an already existing grid, turning Mumbai into a power surplus city or at the very least reducing the deficit on power.
So even though India is power surplus, it is merely using those funds from power exporta to install greater power capacity and upgrade it's electric grid.
This is on a national scale, just expand it to be between countries.
Also, quite a bit of your previous post, and consequently this one, is not relevant to my previous short and sweet post you quoted

Not directly connected to speech rights but to BAN governments impose on various things and spheres of life. I just used example of Norway where they do it, as must seems harsh or cruel. Also, i was talking about IMPORT, you wrote now about export, and what you wrote is correct, just missed a topic

Kirjoittanut Skanderbeg, 07.03.2016 at 09:38

Kirjoittanut Darth., 07.03.2016 at 09:05

Not directly connected to speech rights but to BAN governments impose on various things and spheres of life. I just used example of Norway where they do it, as must seems harsh or cruel. Also, i was talking about IMPORT, you wrote now about export, and what you wrote is correct, just missed a topic

Import is related to export. To counter your no need to import argument, I offered up an export analog which shows that even if you produce more of an item than you need, you still need to import. (in reduced quantities to be sure, but import nonetheless) . An exception might be OPEC countries but even they export oil some of which is processed into chemicals, then shipped right back to them (entrepôt trade). Supply and demand. There will never be no demand.

Kirjoittanut Darth., 07.03.2016 at 09:49

Also, since when did atWar' turn into 'atTrade'?

Trade is good, trade is strong, trade is life.

We mafiosi control arms smuggling rackets. We export and sell to all warring states and groups across the world. Iraq, Syria, ISIS, Ukraine, Boko Haram, Somalia you name it.

Business is business.

Kirjoittanut Darth., 06.03.2016 at 14:28

Lol. Also I, J, U and S
India
Japan
USA
And South China Sea

Those aren't nearly as fun as saying the three t's #AlliterationsFTW

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Kirjoittanut Dereny, 05.03.2016 at 12:13

Great Gorbachev video, skip to 10 seconds

I saw it several times looool

Kirjoittanut Columna Durruti, 05.03.2016 at 08:10

Still waiting to hear your opinion & comment

Gorbacher should be killed,he is traitor,english agent.
Btw tito,nice topic,mbe only good topic from you.